D&D 5E Counterspell - Do I know my foes' spell before I counter?

[clearstream]

Hi,

let's say, I don't want to waste my Counterspell to interrupt an enemy casting a Cantrip, but I do want to prevent him from casting e.g. a Fireball. Is it possible to find out what spell is being cast by my foe, so I can decide whether or not I cast Counterspell?

For example, I am having in mind to use the Arcana ability check for that. On the other hand, if I start to allow that, I am sure my Players will ask for that check for ANY spell. Therefore, to speed up the game, I would also be an option to automatically tell them and give them the opportunity to counter or not.

How would you rule that?

Thanks in advance!

The rule I am using is

Recognising a Spell
To recognise a spell as it is being cast requires an Intelligence (Arcana) DC 12 + spell level ability check for arcane spells, and a Wisdom (Religion) DC 12 + spell level check for divine spells

I prefer that sort of level (DC 12 base) because it pays off characters who invest in the skill.

I wanted to give the characters experienced with those spells a better than 50/50 on spells they could cast, and worse than 50/50 on spells much above that. A 5th level Cleric could have Wisdom 18 and proficiency Religion for +7. They can cast a 3rd level so that is DC 15 and such spells are 65% odds on to recognise. Remembering that this kind of recognition must be a snap judgement.

 

[schnee]

Thanks for all your responses!


I like that ruling. Only question to discuss seems the difficulty of the DC. 15 + spell level seems a bit high, doesn't it?

Yeah, could be. We're pretty low level with high stats (4d6 drop lowest + good rolls and decent optimizers) so it's been working out about 50/50 or slightly less.

I like the later post with the DC12 and splitting it into Religion for divine spells - it seems sucky for a Divine caster to always be shut down with counter spells with no answer for it, so a wizard really has to invest in Divine knowledge to have a good chance with those spells.

 

[GMMichael]

1) If they have the spell on their spells known list, they automatically know what's being cast.

To this day, I can't identify the spells I know when someone else is casting them. But then, I'm only a third-circle mage.

2) If they don't, they can roll an Arcana check to see if they understand it. DC 15 + spell level.

I've tried this, but by the time I realize it's Fireball, I'm already patting out the flames.

3) Sometimes the check is made at Disadvantage. For example - really noisy situations, the other caster is over ~60' away, stuff like that. It's a judgment call, but those are rare.

Can I add another to this?

4) You don't have time to identify another spellcaster's spell if his initiative is higher than yours.

 

[OB1]

Guess I'm an outlier here. I allow counter spell after I or the player announces what the spell is. The only time a check comes into play is if the spell being countered is a higher level than the slot used to counter.

 

[Croesus]

Our group uses the following DCs for Intelligence (Arcana) checks:

To know what level spell is being cast: DC 10 + spell level
To know exactly what spell is being cast: DC 15 + spell level

The lower level check provides some useful information, but not quite enough to be sure about the spell. The higher level check gives exact info, but can be difficult for anyone but a wizard with high Int and trained Arcana skill.

 

[Shiroiken]

Unless I screw up (which is common) and tell the players what the spell is as part of the action, I give some information, but not all. Assuming you can see them (for somatic/material component) or hear them (verbal component), I generally let the players know who the spell's target is. This gives the players enough tactical information to decide if the counterspell is worth it (countering a defensive/healing spell is uncommon, and selfish players often only counter spells targeting themselves). Once they decide if they counterspell, I'll allow an Int/Arcana check to know what level it is, so they don't have to guess.

 

[Volund]

That would go for all spells with a V component, I would think?

The question was how the counterspeller would know what spell was being cast. With S and M spells (he he) you would have some other visual cue about what spell was being cast, so even if you couldn't hear the words, they might recognize the M or S component being used.

Conversely, if you hear their Verbal component, you hear their spell (barring unusual circumstances)

If you are making the point that if you hear the spell then it is too late to Counterspell, yes, absolutely. I think this highlights the issue of whether Counterspell should even work on Reaction or Bonus Action spells with only V components. It probably shouldn't be possible to Counterspell Shield or Misty Step. But the rules say you can use Counterspell that way, so we will have to suspend our logic about how it is possible to hear a quick verbal spell and then react with your own verbal spell to interrupt it before it is completed.

Personally, to keep things simple, I would just let PC's and NPC's decide to use Counterspell after the spell is announced. After all, in games I play in the PC's don't tell the DM "I'm making some casting actions with my hands," they just announce the spell and then the DM decides whether the enemy caster will Counterspell. It should work the same for everyone. The rules don't go into much detail about how Counterspell actually works. "Interrupt a creature in the process of casting a spell" implies that Counterspell goes off before the effect of the spell is seen, but the rules don't give any process for determining what spell they are in the process of casting. So you can invent a process that applies to everyone equally, adding an extra layer of complexity to casting and combat, or else skip it and make knowing the spell being cast an inherent property of Counterspell. Alternatively, it would also be simple to just make "I begin to cast a spell" a rote statement for casters, giving the opponent a chance to either say "OK" or "Counterspell" without knowing what was being cast. I favor simplicity over realism, but I acknowledge that others like more verisimilitude in their D&D, or enjoy inventing new game processes to fill in the holes in the rules.

 

[aco175]

I just tell them that the guy is casting a fireball. My group does not really counter things, they save slots for casting fireballs themselves. I tend to have bad guys counter more of the PCs spells.

 

[MiraMels]

Don't let them roll free Arcana checks in the middle of an opponent's turn. It'll slow the game down and it isn't compelling gameplay. Either tell them or don't tell them, whatever suits your style and your table, but don't make them roll for it. That's my recommendation.


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[cmad1977]

I imagine the spell is basically mid flight before the counter spell goes off. As such I tell my players what spells are being cast.


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