D&D 5E Counterspell what do people think?

[Maxperson]

To qualify as D&D editions need to have something in common with previous editions. There is no "no spell is essential" rule in 5e, just as there wasn't in any other edition of D&D. Some spells are better than others and there is nothing wrong with that.

I hate the "everything has to be balanced nonsense". You see it in MMOs and all you are left with is a grey sameness in which your choices have no meaning.

Something in common yes. Everything in common no. It's impossible to have everything in common or we would still be playing 1e. Editions change things, and the 5e design philosophy includes getting away from taxes. A spell tax(a spell people feel they NEED to take) is against that philosophy.

The problem we are having is that people can interpret a spell as less powerful, the same, or more powerful than other people. You view the spell as just fine. I and others here do not. If a spell is so good that everyone and their mother is taking it, it's overpowered.

 

[Maxperson]

You don't normally require two free hands if a spell has S and M components. You can preform S components with the hand holding M components.

But it wouldn't be unreasonable to house rule the other way.

Rule, not house rule. You don't normally get to interrupt your spell to do something else and then get back to it.

 

[FrogReaver]

You don't normally require two free hands if a spell has S and M components. You can preform S components with the hand holding M components.

But it wouldn't be unreasonable to house rule the other way.

Normally you hold a spell focus and have 1 free hand.

if that free hand is doing somatic components of the first spell then where’s the other free hand?

 

[Lanefan]

How do you figure? It's a reaction, so the person counterspelling can still cast spells normally on their turn.

Yeah, this is one part about Counterspell I have a problem with: even though it's a "reaction", as far as I'm concerned countering should take up your whole round - you're sitting there waiting for the foe to start casting and as soon as he does, you're ready. 5e messed this* up horribly, probably because the designers had played a bit too much M:tG.

* - and one other aspect: where you're allowed to interrupt yourself in mid-spell to counter someone countering you. Garbage rule.

 

[Lanefan]

Rule, not house rule. You don't normally get to interrupt your spell to do something else and then get back to it.

Sad to say, but actually you do; given that idiotic ruling from Sage Advice that says you can interrupt yourself to cast a Counterspell. Why? Because unless they've clarified it since (I don't know if they have) this then means by extension that you can interrupt yourself to cast any reaction spell. And if no other rule prevents it, this then extends further to imply you can interrupt yourself to use your reaction for the round in any way required.

Bah.

 

[TarionzCousin]

Lan 'Bah' efan.

Fixed that for you.

 

[Oofta]

Normally you hold a spell focus and have 1 free hand.

if that free hand is doing somatic components of the first spell then where’s the other free hand?

Generally speaking, when I cast counterspell I don't need an entire hand. Just a single finger.

 

[Maxperson]

Generally speaking, when I cast counterspell I don't need an entire hand. Just a single finger.

Odd. Whenever I tried that spell, I ended up casting Incite Berserker Rage.

 

[Shadowdweller]

I just haven't ever seen Counterspell chains become that abusive. Counterspell isn't even close to a spell tax....quite a lot of casters function without it just fine, even amongst those who can take it. A third level spell slot is reasonably valuable...every spell countered is potentially another Fireball or Hypnotic pattern that the defending caster isn't using against the enemy. Fully locking out enemy spellcasters with it is more difficult than one might think given 1) the 60' range, and 2) the requirement that the defending caster SEE the spell to be countered being cast. And spending a reaction to use it isn't a completely valueless cost for an arcane caster either...since that also means forgoing Shield or Absorb Elements for the round.

 

[DND_Reborn]

To qualify as D&D editions need to have something in common with previous editions. There is no "no spell is essential" rule in 5e, just as there wasn't in any other edition of D&D. Some spells are better than others and there is nothing wrong with that.

I hate this "everything has to be balanced" nonsense. You see it in MMOs and all you are left with is a grey sameness in which your choices have no meaning.

Yeah, balance has its place but IMO sometimes people (and games) go overboard with it.

For a must have spell, I agree completely with Cure Wounds or some equivalent. Although 5E has done a lot to remove its importance via the Short Rest HD mechanic, healing potions, etc., it saves just as many lives as ever. I don't know many wizards without Detect Magic also.

I disagree that it has to be a house rule. More of a ruling than a house rule, since both spells say you need to have a hand free to engage the somatic component, but it's clearly impossible to do two different somatic components simultaneously, so one hand is no longer free for the fireball while the fireball is being cast. The DM is free to engage a ruling that without the free hand for fireball, the fireball fails or needs a concentration check due to you reacting and casting counterspell. The DM could also rule that there's no need for either one. No matter which way it's ruled, though, the ruling is solidly based on a game rule and is not going to be a house rule.

True, but as I mentioned, the other hand is not in fact free. It is holding the bat guano and sulfer, and so it's incapable of being used for the somatic component.

That's one way to do it.

What? You can't pat your head with one hand and rub your tummy with the other at the same time? I can even hold a pencil, DVR remote, or other "material component/spell focus" in one of my hands if I had to.

Normally you hold a spell focus and have 1 free hand.

if that free hand is doing somatic components of the first spell then where’s the other free hand?

While that might normally be the course of action, the PHB specifically states you can use the hand holding the spell focus or material component to do the somatic component.

So, one hand is holding your component/focus and casting spell X, the other is used for the somatic component for Counterspell if it is needed. I guess it would be a bit like juggling (which I can't do... sigh... ), but a lot of people can juggle.

Generally speaking, when I cast counterspell I don't need an entire hand. Just a single finger.

Wait a minute! Is the finger even yours? If not, wouldn't that be a bit disgusting and also a material component, not somatic?!