Coup de Grace broken?

[Pielorinho]

If casting an alarm spell is a good deterent for CdG, if posting watch is a good deterent for CdG, then maybe alignment could also be a good deterent for CdG. That was the point I tried to make before, but seemed to have failed miserably.

This would be appropriate grounds for a new thread, if you want to start one, but it's exactly the issue that got the old one closed. Please start a new thread or drop it. Or, if you want do discuss the issue with Tom and no one else, use email -- a messageboard is not the place for a private conversation.

Daniel

 

[Grog]

Frankly, I greatly welcomed CDG when I first read the 3e phb. Sick and tired of the "Someone's gonna be executed, save them before the axe falls" kind of scenarios not being backed by the rules. By the straight rules in previous editions you had to whack at the person until they died from Hp loss. That sucked.

Agreed. I said this in the other thread, but I'll repeat it - I was glad for the CDG rules because they were rules for dealing with helpless opponents that actually made sense. In 1e and 2e, most people agreed that it was ludicrous that you had to hack away at a held creature until you managed to chop through all its hit points. Your choices were, you could either keep that stupid rule, or (as most gaming groups I played in did) you could house rule that you could just automatically kill a helpless opponent.

The CDG rules are actually less lethal than the way many groups played in 1e and 2e.

 

[Storm Raven]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Coup de Grace broken?

There is a difference. Take, for example, a rat. On a normal hit, it does 1d3-4 damage, or one point. With a Bull's Strength spell, it might do 1d3-2 damage-still one point. Or with a critical hit, it could do 2d3-8 damage-again, one point.

Umm, no. On a critical hit, you do a minimum of one point of damage per die. A critical hit for a normal rat is not (2d3-8) damage, it is [(1d3-4)+(1d3-4)] = 2.

 

[RigaMortus2]

This would be appropriate grounds for a new thread, if you want to start one, but it's exactly the issue that got the old one closed. Please start a new thread or drop it. Or, if you want do discuss the issue with Tom and no one else, use email -- a messageboard is not the place for a private conversation.

Daniel

Ok, now it's confirmed. You are just LOOKING to start trouble, aren't you?

I posted a valid idea of how to handle CdG so that it didn't appear as "broken" as Tom McCafferty suggested. My point is just as valid as using the alarm spell, posting a watch or what have you. It is using RULES in the Core PHB Rules book.

 

[Aaron2]

It is using RULES in the Core PHB Rules book.

There is not a single RULE in the core rulebooks that restrict you to acting according to your alignment. Thus it is in no way a deterent.


Just to get back to topic, look at the extreme measure that Saddam took to avoid being killed. They can just as easily be applied to your BBEG or the local King Goody-nice-guy.

1- Multiple underground bunkers, never sleeping at the same one two nights in a row.

2- Only using your relatives for security.

3- Utilizing multiple body doubles to throw off your enemies.

4- Brutally killing anyone suspected of not being loyal. Thus the local guard isn't about to accept your 200 gp bribe.

Here are some additional magical security precausions.

5- Elite guard with permanent Detect Magics. They can sense illusions, invisible people, and change-self/polymorph.

6- "Trained" oozes or constructs patrolling the plumbing. Keeping out those pesky rats and druids.

Aaron

 

[Christian]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Coup de Grace broken?

Umm, no. On a critical hit, you do a minimum of one point of damage per die. A critical hit for a normal rat is not (2d3-8) damage, it is [(1d3-4)+(1d3-4)] = 2.

Oh! I must have missed that rule. Can you direct me to it?

 

[Pielorinho]

Oh, for the love of....

Take it here, guys. If you insist on debating the alignment of CdG, flouting what the original poster and the mods both have asked, take it here.

Daniel

 

[Storm Raven]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Coup de Grace broken?

Oh! I must have missed that rule. Can you direct me to it?

From the SRD:

When a critical hit is scored, roll the damage with all modifiers two, three, or four times, as indicated by its critical multiplier, and add all the results together.

[Emphasis added]

There you go.

 

[Pielorinho]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Coup de Grace broken?

From the SRD:
[Emphasis added]

There you go.

Hmm...I see what you're saying, but I'm not sure i see why you put the parentheses where you do. You state that the damage should be calculated as

[(1d3-4)+(1d3-4)] = 2

But why not calculate it as
(1d3 - 4 + 1d3 - 4) = 1?

The only circumstance I can think of in which someone is likely to be criticaled by a rat is when they're the target of the spell creeping doom. In this case, 1,000 rats or other vermin blanket an area. If they could critical, you'd expect the spell's damage to be at least 1,002 (one out of 400 hits always criticals) -- but instead, the damage is 1,000, one point per creature that can do damage.

That's not a perfect example, but I think it's the only place in the rules that it's covered.

Daniel

 

[Drawmack]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Coup de Grace broken?

Hmm...I see what you're saying, but I'm not sure i see why you put the parentheses where you do. You state that the damage should be calculated as

[(1d3-4)+(1d3-4)] = 2

But why not calculate it as
(1d3 - 4 + 1d3 - 4) = 1?

The only circumstance I can think of in which someone is likely to be criticaled by a rat is when they're the target of the spell creeping doom. In this case, 1,000 rats or other vermin blanket an area. If they could critical, you'd expect the spell's damage to be at least 1,002 (one out of 400 hits always criticals) -- but instead, the damage is 1,000, one point per creature that can do damage.

That's not a perfect example, but I think it's the only place in the rules that it's covered.

Daniel

When you rules lawyer it is a good idea to know basic math.

Roll all the die and add the results. This means you need to get the result of each die individually which is a summation which by the rules of mathematics forces the parenthesy placment and you are simply incorrect and this has nothing to do with the thread anyway.