Coup de Grace with a Touch Spell?

[Egres]

Can you make a Coup de Grace with a Touch Spell?

From the SRD:

Coup de Grace: As a full-round action, you can use a melee weapon to deliver a coup de grace to a helpless opponent. You can also use a bow or crossbow, provided you are adjacent to the target.

As you can see, it requires a melee weapon.

A melee weapon is A handheld weapon designed for close combat.

.

If we accept that a Touch Spell is a melee weapon, we should also apply it to feats like this:

SPIRITED CHARGE [GENERAL]
Prerequisites: Ride 1 rank, Mounted Combat, Ride-By Attack.
Benefit: When mounted and using the charge action, you deal double damage with a melee weapon (or triple damage with a lance).
Special: A fighter may select Spirited Charge as one of his fighter bonus feats.

Or

SPRING ATTACK [GENERAL]
Prerequisites: Dex 13, Dodge, Mobility, base attack bonus +4.
Benefit: When using the attack action with a melee weapon, you can move both before and after the attack, provided that your total distance moved is not greater than your speed. Moving in this way does not provoke an attack of opportunity from the defender you attack, though it might provoke attacks of opportunity from other creatures, if appropriate. You can’t use this feat if you are wearing heavy armor.
You must move at least 5 feet both before and after you make your attack in order to utilize the benefits of Spring Attack.
Special: A fighter may select Spring Attack as one of his fighter bonus feats.


What do you think about it?

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Sounds good to me.

CDG with a Vampiric Touch, anyone?

 

[dcollins]

No. A spell is not a melee weapon.

 

[Ottergame]

A touch attack (such as a touch spell against an unwilling target) is a melee attack. It can even be critical. This is on page 141.

 

[Liquidsabre]

A melee attack does not make it a melee *weapon* methinks.

 

[BSF]

Hmm, what about a ranged touch spell when you are adjacant to the target? A bow and a crossbow can be used as a CDG, why not a Scorching Ray?

If a ranged touch spell works, why not a touch attack for a CDG?

I'm not sure I feel strongly on either side, so consider this devil's advocate.

 

[Taloras]

By the rules as I see them, id say no. Simply because its not a weapon. By logic, I wouldnt see why it wouldnt work....you simply touch them in a vital spot since they are helpless....

 

[Ottergame]

I'll have to re-read the FAQ, but I am pretty sure a touch spell IS considered a weapon.

 

[Li Shenron]

Can you make a Coup de Grace with a Touch Spell?

Probably not by the RAW, but I don't see the problem in allowing it. If allowing the Fort save-or-die seems to much, at least allowing the automatic critical doesn't seem wrong to me. It's not necessarily convenient to use a spell most of the time.

If we accept that a Touch Spell is a melee weapon, we should also apply it to feats like this...

Well, in any case those 2 won't be applicable: charge and coup the grace are 2 different actions which cannot be combined, while spring attack works with an attack action only (at best you could stretch the rule and allow it with CdG during a 3.0 haste).

 

[Sejs]

charge and coup the grace are 2 different actions which cannot be combined, while spring attack works with an attack action only

Heh... heh heh heh heh, oh but that does give quite an amusing mental image.

Charge de Grace: So that raider is helpless, huh? Alright, I'll slit his throat just to get him out of the way. One second... let me get a good running start, first...