Coup de Grace with a Touch Spell?

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

I believe his point was actually, "If you allow touch spells to be used in a CdG, you'll also need to allow them to be used as a weapon in a Spirited Charge or Spring Attack," not that you'd be making Charges de Graces.

 

[Egres]

I believe his point was actually, "If you allow touch spells to be used in a CdG, you'll also need to allow them to be used as a weapon in a Spirited Charge or Spring Attack," not that you'd be making Charges de Graces.

Yes Patryn of Elvenshae, you fully grasped my point.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

And as to why most ranged Touch-attack spells wouldn't be able to be used in a CdG, is that CdGs are full-round actions.

You'd only be able to use normal touch spells as CdGs becase you can hold the charge: cast in round 1, CdG in round 2.

You can't do that with most ranged attack spells.

 

[MerakSpielman]

If you have a touch spell charged in your hand, you are considered armed for purposes of provoking attacks of opportunity.

But you don't actually have a melee weapon. You're just not unarmed.

Isn't rules-illogic fun?

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

*Except* that you can deliver a touch spell as part of an unarmed strike, if you're willing to take the (usual) -4 nonproficiency penalty.

So, by that logic, monks are likewise unable to attempt CdGs, and that's patently false, so ...

 

[Sejs]

So, by that logic, monks are likewise unable to attempt CdGs, and that's patently false, so ...

Except that monk unarmed strikes are counted as weapons, and therefor they can CdG. Non-monks (possibly non Imp. Unarmed Strike folks, would have to check) couldn't CdG with unarmed strikes, but that's pretty realistic - hollywoodism necksnapping not withstanding.

 

[Hypersmurf]

*Except* that you can deliver a touch spell as part of an unarmed strike, if you're willing to take the (usual) -4 nonproficiency penalty.

You're mixing up rules...

The -4 penalty is if you want to deal lethal damage with an unarmed strike, not if you want to deliver a touch spell...

And, of course, a -4 penalty on the attack roll means nothing on a CDG.

-Hyp.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

You're mixing up rules...

The -4 penalty is if you want to deal lethal damage with an unarmed strike, not if you want to deliver a touch spell...

No, I'm not. You can deliver a touch spell, normally, requiring a touch attack, or you can do so with an unarmed strike. If you want to deal lethal damage with that unarmed strike, you usually take the -4 nonproficiency penalty (barring a spellcaster with Improved Unarmed Strike).

Holding the Charge: If you don’t discharge the spell in the round when you cast the spell, you can hold the discharge of the spell (hold the charge) indefinitely. You can continue to make touch attacks round after round. You can touch one friend as a standard action or up to six friends as a full-round action. If you touch anything or anyone while holding a charge, even unintentionally, the spell discharges. If you cast another spell, the touch spell dissipates. Alternatively, you may make a normal unarmed attack (or an attack with a natural weapon) while holding a charge. In this case, you aren’t considered armed and you provoke attacks of opportunity as normal for the attack. (If your unarmed attack or natural weapon attack doesn’t provoke attacks of opportunity, neither does this attack.) If the attack hits, you deal normal damage for your unarmed attack or natural weapon and the spell discharges. If the attack misses, you are still holding the charge.

And, of course, a -4 penalty on the attack roll means nothing on a CDG.

Exactly.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Except that monk unarmed strikes are counted as weapons, and therefor they can CdG.

As do weapon-like spells.

Non-monks (possibly non Imp. Unarmed Strike folks, would have to check) couldn't CdG with unarmed strikes, but that's pretty realistic - hollywoodism necksnapping not withstanding.

Not correct.

In order to perform a CdG, you need only have a weapon which is capable of dealing lethal damage to the target.

Regeneration (Ex): A creature with this ability is difficult to kill. Damage dealt to the creature is treated as nonlethal damage. The creature automatically heals nonlethal damage at a fixed rate per round, as given in the entry. Certain attack forms, typically fire and acid, deal lethal damage to the creature, which doesn’t go away. The creature’s descriptive text describes the details. A regenerating creature that has been rendered unconscious through nonlethal damage can be killed with a coup de grace. The attack cannot be of a type that automatically converts to nonlethal damage.

Attack forms that don’t deal hit point damage ignore regeneration. Regeneration also does not restore hit points lost from starvation, thirst, or suffocation. Regenerating creatures can regrow lost portions of their bodies and can reattach severed limbs or body parts; details are in the creature’s descriptive text. Severed parts that are not reattached wither and die normally.

A creature must have a Constitution score to have the regeneration ability.

Normally, an Unarmed Strike does subdual damage, and by extension of the above rule, you can't CdG with an attack that does subdual damage.

However, any creature, at any time, may elect to do lethal damage with an Unarmed Strike, even without the Imp. Unarmed Strike feat. They merely take a -4 on their to-hit roll.

Since CdGs automatically hit, and automatically do critical damage, the -4 penalty to hit is ignored, and lethal damage is done.

Hollywoodish necksnapping lives, I tell you!

 

[Sejs]

Hollywoodish necksnapping lives, I tell you!

Curses! Foiled again!