Pathfinder 2E I played my first PF2e game this week. Here's why I'm less inclined to play again.

[MGibster]

I was absolutely the target audience for PF walking into the event, so the fact that I'm now turned off of it seems like a big miss. Maybe the characters I chose were poor examples (in which case, taking them out of the stack of the dozen pregens we were handed might have been a good idea). But with my lack of experience, I can't tell the difference between a lacking demo and a lacking game.

While this might have been a big miss for Pathfinder it was a big win for you. Finding out you don't like something is very valuable information.

 

[Thomas Shey]

More like they are better at crowd-control than melee-focused builds, but I find that people with weapons typically are better at causing damage than those with magic, which is fine: magic can cause damage, but it's power is in its versatility. Magic is a Jack of All Trades, it can't do everything the best like in most editions of D&D.

And there's still that crowd control thing. A mage can end up putting more damage downrange than any fighter ever will; they just end up putting it in multiple targets usually (the usually is important, though).

But people with weapons cause better damage is a fine niche. And melee can be a bit better at causing damage, in my games I have a gunslinger who is absolutely a terror when it comes to crit-fishing.

Gunslingers are weird to play (my last PF2e character was one). They can be very impressive when the crits land, but you can go through a lot of battles where you feel really substandard.

 

[Justice and Rule]

And there's still that crowd control thing. A mage can end up putting more damage downrange than any fighter ever will; they just end up putting it in multiple targets usually (the usually is important, though).

Yeah. PF2 protects niches. Mages can still do a ton of stuff, but they're not going to be able to take over the single target damage part of things, otherwise you bring back all the problems of the other stuff.

Gunslingers are weird to play (my last PF2e character was one). They can be very impressive when the crits land, but you can go through a lot of battles where you feel really substandard.

I mean, we have a joke at this point about him headshotting BBEGs with massive crits to start off combats. Women want him, sorcerers fear him...

 

[Staffan]

So the new spot for magic is clean up crew? Interesting.

Not so much clean-up crew as AOE blasters. I've gotten some good use out of waterball*, cone of cold, and chain lightning against groups of lesser foes. These have often been able to put out some nasty damage collectively, and either taking them out right away or softening them up so the martials can take them out in one hit instead of four helps a lot. So my tactics often boil down to: use big AOE vs many targets, or use slow or fear against single strong targets. The latter is useful, but generally not super-exciting.

* Elemental sorcerer with water element, gets fireball with water dealing bludgeoning damage as a bloodline spell.

 

[Thomas Shey]

Yeah. PF2 protects niches. Mages can still do a ton of stuff, but they're not going to be able to take over the single target damage part of things, otherwise you bring back all the problems of the other stuff.

There are a few arcane spells that can be really punchy at their levels on a single target basis, but they aren't going to do those round after round.

I mean, we have a joke at this point about him headshotting BBEGs with massive crits to start off combats. Women want him, sorcerers fear him...

Like I said, I had some serious cleanup on a few occasions, but I also spent a lot of time going "You know, I'd have contributed to this fight more as an archer."

 

[Thomas Shey]

Not so much clean-up crew as AOE blasters. I've gotten some good use out of waterball*, cone of cold, and chain lightning against groups of lesser foes. These have often been able to put out some nasty damage collectively, and either taking them out right away or softening them up so the martials can take them out in one hit instead of four helps a lot. So my tactics often boil down to: use big AOE vs many targets, or use slow or fear against single strong targets. The latter is useful, but generally not super-exciting.

* Elemental sorcerer with water element, gets fireball with water dealing bludgeoning damage as a bloodline spell.

I saw a lot of hell sent downrange via Chain Lightning by our chronic sorcerer player. Its one of the reasons I tend to roll my eyes when I hit the "spellcasters are only there to help the fighters" thing drop yet again.

 

[Eric V]

Gunslingers are weird to play (my last PF2e character was one). They can be very impressive when the crits land, but you can go through a lot of battles where you feel really substandard.

Oh God, yes... :'(

 

[Thomas Shey]

Oh God, yes... :'(

It can be even more procounced with a two-gun user because the reload times are so awful; even with talents its hard to get it better than three shots in two rounds.

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

My experience is the gunslinger was awful. They deal pitiful damage when they don't crit, and you simply don't crit much vs bosses. Having random spike damage is probably the worst form of DPS. Any amount that puts the enemy below 0 doesnt count, so when you crit that mook for 30 and he has 10 HP... you only did 10. They are mainly "good"at shooting minions, but because the crits are so random with the spread damage they deal, they arent even reliable at killing them.

We houseruled dual pistols to only take one action to reload and the gunslinger was still dead last in our Outlaws of Alkenstar game. The ORACLE outdamaged me, largely thanks to electric arc and nearly everything being vulnerable to electric and resistant to physical.

 

[nevin]

Not so much clean-up crew as AOE blasters. I've gotten some good use out of waterball*, cone of cold, and chain lightning against groups of lesser foes. These have often been able to put out some nasty damage collectively, and either taking them out right away or softening them up so the martials can take them out in one hit instead of four helps a lot. So my tactics often boil down to: use big AOE vs many targets, or use slow or fear against single strong targets. The latter is useful, but generally not super-exciting.

* Elemental sorcerer with water element, gets fireball with water dealing bludgeoning damage as a bloodline spell.

Just killing the weaker damage dealing, generally less important NPC's l, is the definition of clean up crew. Kill the small ones so melee can have the heroic moment with the big ones. Meshes perfectly with the PF2 design focus of all non melee's just being support for melee.