Couple of rules questions

[Diirk]

1) With the multiclass feats that say 'you can also wield xxxx implements' is there a faq ruling or anything clarifying what you can wield them for ? The character builder doesn't let you multiclass to invoker and use staffs as a shaman, for instance (except with invoker powers), so I'm not sure if thats a bug or if thats how its meant to work but it the feats are worded poorly.

2) Given the following:

AA.
AA.
..b

Where A is an ogre, b is a fighter and . are empty squares. If the ogre moves down 1 square (moves not shifts):

...
AA.
AAb

Does the fighter get an opportunity attack? The point of contention is that the only adjacent square to the fighter that the ogre has left... he hasn't left, because his back half is now in it.

Personally, my mind boggles that anyone would actually insist this was how OAs should work, but I can see my DMs point. Is there any clarification anywhere on what it means to 'leave' a square for large and bigger creatures ?

 

[Tony Vargas]

These both seem obvious to me.

1) Yeah, you can use the class's implements with the class's powers that call for implements. There's another feat, in Arcane Power, IIRC, that lets you become 'proficient' with a new arcane implement, and use it with any arcane implement power. Multiclassing feats, though, just allow you to swipe a few things from another class, not necesarily fully integrate them with your existing class.

2) Yes, the ogre provokes. Sheesh. I can see what your DM is getting at, but it's grasping at a technicality. Moving up to an enemy doesn't provoke, moving past or away from an enemy does. That's what the whole 'leaving a square' thing is trying to model.

 

[Mr. Wilson]

I'm at work atm, so I can't provide concrete examples, but I'm pretty sure these are correct answers. Though, as always, more rules savy players should correct me if I'm wrong.

1.) When you multiclass, you need to use the implements that correspond to each power. A shaman multiclassed to Invoker would need a totem for his shaman powers and would need a staff (or rod, IIRC) for his Invoker powers in your example.

2.) IMO, if the ogre is moving one square, not shifting, it does provoke an OA (and possible use of a Combat Challenge if a fighter).

 

[Diirk]

Well with 2 the problem is that intuitively it should provoke, but the rule says "If an enemy leaves a square adjacent to you, you can make an opportunity attack against that enemy."

And while it may be a technicality, he's convinced himself that its what the rule says.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Well with 2 the problem is that intuitively it should provoke, but the rule says "If an enemy leaves a square adjacent to you, you can make an opportunity attack against that enemy."

And while it may be a technicality, he's convinced himself that its what the rule says.

It did leave the square, the front part of the ogre left the square diagonal to the the fighter. Sure, the back part of the ogre moved INTO that square as well, but so what? Good luck convincing him though.

The other poster's are correct on point one. MCing into implement using classes can easily force you to use multiple different implements. Arcane Implement Proficiency can help with a few combinations (and presumably must also grant you the ability to use properties etc of whatever implement you took it for, else its worthless). This is really one of the main limitations on anything that lets you pick powers from other classes. Notice how the wording in the PHB on wands seems to offer an out so that you could MC into a wand using class, gain a power from it, and then use wand powers. Staffs, rods, and orbs interestingly have no such text.

Essentially when you MC into a class and want to get implement powers, you should consider what sorts of overlap there is with your character's existing allowed implements. Some classes will synergize well, like Invokers and either wizards or warlocks, other's won't, like primal classes and anything non-primal.

AV2 introduces some items which are both Arcane implements AND Holy symbols. This could open up some ways to use MCing between the two power sources more effectively since up to now it has been pretty hard to combine say cleric and wizard implement powers in one character.

 

[DracoSuave]

1) With the multiclass feats that say 'you can also wield xxxx implements' is there a faq ruling or anything clarifying what you can wield them for ? The character builder doesn't let you multiclass to invoker and use staffs as a shaman, for instance (except with invoker powers), so I'm not sure if thats a bug or if thats how its meant to work but it the feats are worded poorly.

'You can also wield XXXXX implements' isn't really specific enough.

Arcane Implement Proficiency says you can use the selected implement with arcane powers. So, you can use it with arcane powers.

Most multiclass feats say you can use that class's implement with powers of that class. So that tells you when you can use it.

Your own first class says you can use those specific implements with your own class's powers.

Very few actually say you can use it with -any- implement power tho, as far as I know.

 

[Turtlejay]

Probably not helpful, but classes that use implements all have a clause saying that you do not need the implement to use the power. You can cast with your hands empty if you wish. Of course you don't benefit from enchanted implements if you do this (or implement expertise), but for dabblers this works fine.

Jay

 

[Hjorimir]

2) Yes it provkes an Opportunity Attack (and tell your DM to quit being a goob and let you have your fun).

 

[boolean]

The Forgotten Realms Player's Guide FAQ (here) clarifies how these feats work. (Blade Initiate, the Swordmage multiclass feat, was the first to use the abbreviated wording, but the answer is general enough to apply to the other feats as well.)

So, the Character Builder is correct. Taking the multi-class Invoker feat allows you to use staffs and rods for Invoker powers (and Invoker Paragon Path Powers). Not for any other powers.

 

[aurance]

"If an enemy leaves a square adjacent to you, you can make an opportunity attack against that enemy."

Enemy = Ogre. Does "One part of the ogre" = "Ogre?" You could make a case that the ogre as a whole has not left any square adjacent to you, and thus provokes no OA. In fact, that's the way I'll rule it as a DM.