Couple ?s about Blindness & Invisibility

[Ogrork the Mighty]

Question #1:
Creature A is invisible and UNAWARE of Creature B.

Creature B is invisible and AWARE of Creature A.

Creature B knows Creature A is out there but can't see invisible so instead relies on the Listen skill. The rules state that the check is made against A's Move Silently check. But why? Shouldn't it be a set DC? Creature A doesn't know there's another invisible creature out there so isn't moving quietly.

Question #2:
The 3.0 FAQ had modifiers to Spot checks (re: in the context of encounter distance IIRC), such as contrast and moving/not moving. Did these carry over to 3.5 and, if so, where can I find them?

Question #3:
I'm a little unclear on one of the penalties for blindness. You lose Dex bonus to AC and take a -2 AC penalty. But then the combat modifiers table states invisible attackers gain a +2 to attacks. Which is it? Or is it both?

Thanks in advance...

 

[daemonslye]

Question 1: I always find DMG.p.30 and p.31 to be a good guide here; Possibly DC in a range of 0-10 depending on the general noisiness of the subject; That said, in my experience, invisible creatures normally are trying to move silently (even if at at penalty for normal or higher speed).
Question 2: PHB.p.78: LISTEN
Question 3: see in bold below

PHB.p.305 Blind:

Unable to see. A
blind character takes –2
penalty to Armor Class,
loses his Dexterity bonus to
AC (if any), moves at half
speed, and takes a –4 penalty
on Search checks and on
most Strength- and Dexteritybased
skill checks. All checks
and activities that rely on
vision (such as reading and
Spot checks) automatically
fail. All opponents are considered
to have total concealment
(50% miss chance) relative to the
blinded character.

PHB.p.307: invisible

invisible: Visually undetectable. An invisible creature gains a +2
bonus on attack rolls against sighted opponents, and ignores its
opponents’ Dexterity bonus to AC (if any). (Invisibility has no effect
against blinded or otherwise nonsighted creatures.) An invisible
creature’s location cannot be pinpointed by visual means. It has total
concealment; even if an attacker correctly guesses the invisible
creature’s location, the attacker has a 50% miss chance in combat.

 

[drunkmoogle]

1) A(lice) is unaware of B(ob). Unless Alice specifically says she's moving silently, the base DC for listening IMO is 0 (DC for people talking). A not-so-bad houserule is that Alice is taking zero on her MS check.

2)

Although invisibility provides total concealment, sighted opponents may still make Spot checks to notice the location of an invisible character. An invisible character gains a +20 bonus on Hide checks if moving, or a +40 bonus on Hide checks when not moving (even though opponents can’t see you, they might be able to figure out where you are from other visual clues).

You can find it under the description of Total Concealment in the Combat section. There is no contrast between moving/not moving.

3) By the RAW, a blind creature DOES NOT treat its attackers as invisible, despite what most people think. It is a seperate condition with seperate consequences. An invisible attacker attacking a blind defender will get the benefits of attacking invisible, odd as it may sound. Edit: D'oh! Thanks Daemon

 

[hong]

Question #1:
Creature A is invisible and UNAWARE of Creature B.

Creature B is invisible and AWARE of Creature A.

Creature B knows Creature A is out there but can't see invisible so instead relies on the Listen skill. The rules state that the check is made against A's Move Silently check. But why? Shouldn't it be a set DC? Creature A doesn't know there's another invisible creature out there so isn't moving quietly.

If A doesn't know there's another invisible creature, then A probably isn't taking great care to move silently. In particular, they're probably moving at normal speed, not half speed, and so take a -5 penalty to their check.

 

[Ogrork the Mighty]

OK, I found some clarification.

The old 3.0 FAQ distinguishes between actively using Hide and not. It cites not moving at 1/2 speed (or, we can infer moving at full speed but taking a -5 penalty - still requiring specification that you're hiding) as evidence that a character is not actively hiding. As such, there is a set DC for spot checks. If you're actively hiding, then it's an opposed Spot-Hide contest.

The old 3.0 FAQ also has spotting difficulty modifiers on table 3-2 in the 3.0 DMG (p. 60). Was this transferred over to 3.5? I can't find it in the 3.5 DMG.

Just to be clear, a sighted invisible attacker gets +2 attacks against a blinded visible defender (the latter whom also gets a -2 AC penalty; for a net effect of an AC that's 4 worse). Correct?

 

[Hypersmurf]

Just to be clear, a sighted invisible attacker gets +2 attacks against a blinded visible defender (the latter whom also gets a -2 AC penalty; for a net effect of an AC that's 4 worse). Correct?

No.

A blind creature is completely unaffected by whether or not you're invisible.

-Hyp.

 

[Ogrork the Mighty]

Ahh, ok. I get it now.