Cover, reach, and AoO?

[Dr. Confoundo]

One of the characters in the game I run is a pole-arm wielding warforged, and now that we are using reach weapons on a regular basis, we've run across a odd question.

Lets say the character (w) is facing 4 opponents: 3 kobolds guards (k) and a sorcerer (s) - since his polearm gives him 10' reach, he can attack any of these sqaures.

-----
-----
--w--
-kkk-
--s--

So the sorcerer in the back row has cover from the kobolds he is standing behind. If the warforged wants to attack him over their heads, he'll take a -4 to hit.

But if the sorcerer tries to cast a spell or drink a potion, does the warforged get an Attack of Opportunity on him? Per the SRD:

Cover and Attacks of Opportunity: You can't execute an attack of opportunity against an opponent with cover relative to you.

Now is this specifically talking about 'hard cover' (walls and obstacles), or does 'soft cover' (other characters) count as well? Could the sorcerer in the back row cast spells, drink potions, do the old soft shoe, etc, and never draw an AoO because there's a kobold between him and the pointy stick wielding warforged?

 

[Nareau]

Yes. So long as the Sorcerer has cover, he Warforged cannot make an attack of opportunity against him.

Also, technically, the WF doesn't get a -4 to his attack roll--the Sorcerer gets a +4 on his AC against the WF.

Spider

 

[moritheil]

One of the characters in the game I run is a pole-arm wielding warforged, and now that we are using reach weapons on a regular basis, we've run across a odd question.

Lets say the character (w) is facing 4 opponents: 3 kobolds guards (k) and a sorcerer (s) - since his polearm gives him 10' reach, he can attack any of these sqaures.

-----
-----
--w--
-kkk-
--s--

So the sorcerer in the back row has cover from the kobolds he is standing behind. If the warforged wants to attack him over their heads, he'll take a -4 to hit.

Are you sure that the polearm threatens those kobold guards? It looks like he's adjacent to them, and usually most reach weapons that threaten 10' don't threaten adjacent squares. Your warforged is in some trouble (assuming the kobolds have any actual damage output.)

It would seem to me, without looking at the polearm rules, that the warforged in that scenario can ONLY attack the sorcerer, if the latter is 10' away and the guards are all 5' away.

 

[glass]

It would seem to me, without looking at the polearm rules, that the warforged in that scenario can ONLY attack the sorcerer, if the latter is 10' away and the guards are all 5' away.

I concur.


glass.

 

[RigaMortus2]

He would not get an AoO, but he could always Ready an attack for when the Sorc casts.

 

[Dr. Confoundo]

Also, technically, the WF doesn't get a -4 to his attack roll--the Sorcerer gets a +4 on his AC against the WF.

Six of one, half-dozen of the others. Works out to be the same thing.

Are you sure that the polearm threatens those kobold guards? It looks like he's adjacent to them, and usually most reach weapons that threaten 10' don't threaten adjacent squares. Your warforged is in some trouble (assuming the kobolds have any actual damage output.)

It would seem to me, without looking at the polearm rules, that the warforged in that scenario can ONLY attack the sorcerer, if the latter is 10' away and the guards are all 5' away.

Well, warforged have their slam attack, so he can whack them with that if needed. My main concern was the cover problem... Unless the sorcerer pops his head out around one of the kobolds, he can do anything he likes and never draw an AoO, even though he is within the threatened zone.

Thanks for the quick answers

 

[moritheil]

Six of one, half-dozen of the others. Works out to be the same thing.

Well, warforged have their slam attack, so he can whack them with that if needed. My main concern was the cover problem...

Thanks for the quick answers

I am obviously not familiar with the warforged, but I'm a little curious at that answer. Wouldn't he have to drop the polearm to use his slam attack? (I assume that he is only possessed of two arms.) Picking it up to wield it again would incur an AOO. Or do warforged have something that allows them to ignore the normal rules regarding that?

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Well, Warforged are also possessed of a natural attack, which *does* threaten at 5' ...

Also:

I am obviously not familiar with the warforged, but I'm a little curious at that answer. Wouldn't he have to drop the polearm to use his slam attack? (I assume that he is only possessed of two arms.) Picking it up to wield it again would incur an AOO. Or do warforged have something that allows them to ignore the normal rules regarding that?

Welll ...

[Attacks with secondary natural weapons are less effective and are made with a –5 penalty on the attack roll, no matter how many there are. (Creatures with the Multiattack feat take only a –2 penalty on secondary attacks.) This penalty applies even when the creature makes a single attack with the secondary weapon as part of the attack action or as an attack of opportunity.

Natural weapons have types just as other weapons do. The most common are summarized below.
Bite: The creature attacks with its mouth, dealing piercing, slashing, and bludgeoning damage.
Claw or Talon: The creature rips with a sharp appendage, dealing piercing and slashing damage.
Gore: The creature spears the opponent with an antler, horn, or similar appendage, dealing piercing damage.
Slap or Slam: The creature batters opponents with an appendage, dealing bludgeoning damage.
Sting: The creature stabs with a stinger, dealing piercing damage. Sting attacks usually deal damage from poison in addition to hit point damage.
Tentacle: The creature flails at opponents with a powerful tentacle, dealing bludgeoning (and sometimes slashing) damage.

And ...

Manufactured Weapons: Some monsters employ manufactured weapons when they attack. Creatures that use swords, bows, spears, and the like follow the same rules as characters, including those for additional attacks from a high base attack bonus and two-weapon fighting penalties. This category also includes “found items,” such as rocks and logs, that a creature wields in combat— in essence, any weapon that is not intrinsic to the creature.
Some creatures combine attacks with natural and manufactured weapons when they make a full attack. When they do so, the manufactured weapon attack is considered the primary attack unless the creature’s description indicates otherwise and any natural weapons the creature also uses are considered secondary natural attacks. These secondary attacks do not interfere with the primary attack as attacking with an off-hand weapon does, but they take the usual –5 penalty (or –2 with the Multiattack feat) for such attacks, even if the natural weapon used is normally the creature’s primary natural weapon.

So, let's define "an appendage," given that:

BLACK PUDDING
Huge Ooze
Hit Dice: 10d10+60 (115 hp)
Initiative: –5
Speed: 20 ft. (4 squares), climb 20 ft.
Armor Class: 3 (–2 size, –5 Dex), touch 3, flat-footed 3
Base Attack/Grapple: +7/+18
Attack: Slam +8 melee (2d6+4 plus 2d6 acid)
Full Attack: Slam +8 melee (2d6+4 plus 2d6 acid)

Clearly, a slam attack doesn't require a real appendage, merely that you have the ability to hit something for bludgeoning damage with some part of your body. As such, a warforged would not even be required to remove his hand from his reach weapon to make such an attack.

And, even if he did, doing so is a free action.

Any attacks made with his natural attack come at a -5 penalty, however.

 

[moritheil]

Well, Warforged are also possessed of a natural attack, which *does* threaten at 5' ...

I don't question that. I'm asking whether or not they need to drop their weapons or have a free hand somehow in order to use this natural attack (which was characterized as a "slam attack.")

 

[Liquidsabre]

[MM p. 312, Natural Weapons]
"Slam: The creature batters opponents with an appendage, dealing bludgeoning damage."

An appendage can be either an arm or a leg in this case.