CR for a Old Black Drag. PsyWar5?

[Brace Cormaeril]

I agree that these full attack charges are real bad coming from that dragon... one dead PC per round.

Hmm... I get, for a full attack charge (after one round of buff, Expansion):
4d6+8 (Bite) Avg Dm=22 ish
2d8+8 (Claws) (x2) Avg Dm= 15 ish (30ish)
2d6+4 (Wings) (x2) Avg Dm= 11 ish (22)
2d8+12 (Tail Slap) Avg Dm= 21 ish

That will put a hurt on the party fighter, who has 93 HP without a buff. If the dragon goes first, which is unlikely against this party. If the Dragon chooses to engage in an arms race of buffing, the PC's will win. The party's wizard is Nigh un-hittable with a massive force/deflection based AC... Displacement is also quite popular with this party. I'll post a round-by-round, the game is tonight, with pics on my Ravenscape myspace.
Thanks for the input, I'm a little worried for the party, now...

 

[Slaved]

If a full attack from the dragon is almost assuredly one dead player character per round then there is something bad going on. It could be that the dragon is simply too tough for the party or that the party is not as strong as their level would suggest or something else. I do not think that the problem is pounce at that point.

 

[Brace Cormaeril]

They beat it. Almost too easily, the Cleric had only just finished buffing himself when the party fighter finally finished it. Pics of the campaign here to fore are in the link in my sig. I will put a round-by-round up later.

 

[Brace Cormaeril]

The Party:
Warlock
1/2 Celestial Paladin
PsyWar/Scout
Fighter
Cleric
Sorceror (force mage)
Bard

The Threat:
Mature Adult Black Dragon PsyWar 3 whose feat whose feats are:
Max Breath
Hover
WingOver
Imp Manuervability
Power Dive
Clinging Breath
Power Attack
Tempest Breath
Imp. Init
Dire Charge
Whirlwind Tail Slap
Psionic Meditation
Ghost Attack

Suprise Round:
Sorceror Spots the Dragon, Fires Force Evocation of some type and deals about 30 damage.
Dragon manifests expansion from cover under water.

Round 1:
Bard Casts Haste and moves to cover. Psywar manifests Greater Concealing Amorpha, moves into position to charge. Sorceror cast Enlarge person on Fighter. Fighter double moves to position to charge when the dragon reveals himself. Warlock fires uses "Mass Bears Endurance" scroll, moves to cover. Paladin casts Bless Weapon and moves to cover. Mobile Spellcasting Cleric cast "Spikes", and moves to cover.

Dragon Flies to 40 ft above ground level, launches Maximized Clinging Tempest Breath on PsyWar.

Round 2:
Bard sings the song of +4 to hit/ to damage. Paladin casts "divine sacrifice". PsyWar spends the round clearing off the Clinging Breath. Sorceror Cast Fly. Cleric cast "divine power", moves to cover. Warlock shoots "Eld. Blast" and fails to penetrate. Fighter does a jumping charge, misses the Jump check by 1...

Dragon Dire Charges fighter, misses second wing buffet and tail slap. Fighter Survives.

Round 3: (The Savage Beat-Down)
Paladin leads the assault, scores a crit and levies 66 points of damage. Sorceror fires a Force Evocation (he's got so many different ones I forget which), and deals about 30. Bard using a "throw my sword" spell, and deals a crit, dealing 28 damage. Party Fighter Full attack, lands a Crit on his first, and hits two more times, dealing 89 points of damage. Warlock fires and fails to penetrate SR. Cleric moves and buffs some more. PsyWar manifests the +2 to damage Precog power.

Dragon goes Invisible, flies up. He has 25 hit points at this point.

Round 4: Unable to do much. Cleric Casts true seeing. Party decides to by more anti-invis stuff. Party sees manifestation of Inertial Armor above them, then a splash as the dragon goes under water again.

Round 5: Fighter and Cleric dive in the water, Dragon takes the AoO, Fighter kills the dragon.

So, what do you think?

Pics are available at www.myspace.com/ravenscape

 

[s-dub]

How did the dragon do 64 points of against the Psi-warrior, who has 93 hp, and then hit with him with 2 claws, a bite, and a wing buffet, and the ps-warrior is still up?

 

[Brace Cormaeril]

No dude, check out the post more carefully, the dragon Dire Charged the Fighter. After launching the Breath Weapon, the PsyWar was, from the Dragon's perspective, basically out of commtion, so he thought he would one "round" the fighter, with a full attack (dire charge). However, he missed (nat 4) with the Wing Buffet, and missed (nat 1) with the Tail Slap.

But, were my tactics sound?

 

[irdeggman]

I'm assuming you are not using the massive damage rules - or else things could have gotten messier much earlier. {I saw a few greater than 50 hp damages from one source in the write up}

If the dragon had cover did you give him the bonus on reflex saving throws and AC?

If he had cover at the beginning - you would have been within your rights to provide him a bonus for it against the spot check to notice him at the beginning of the encounter (when determining surprise). It is one of those "circumstance" types of things that the DM adjudicates for the beginning of combat and determining awareness.

 

[irdeggman]

Tactics wise - a dragon is generally more effective attacking from the air then on the ground.

Other than spells - most ranged weapons will have a hard time harming it. Thus negating the fighter and other melee combatants. These are the ones that tend to really put a hurt on a dragon - once properly buffed and in melee.

Hit and run tactics suit a dragon very well, using their "spells" and breath weapons to greater effect.

 

[Brace Cormaeril]

I'm assuming you are not using the massive damage rules - or else things could have gotten messier much earlier. {I saw a few greater than 50 hp damages from one source in the write up}

No; I experimented with those rules in 2001, and found that although it is fun for PC's to insta-kill a monster with Massive Damage, who would like to have their 100 hp 12th level fighter insta-killed by 50 points of damage?

If the dragon had cover did you give him the bonus on reflex saving throws and AC?

I actually ruled that the Dragon received a greater degree of cover from being nearly submerged underwater; +8 AC / +4 Reflex

If he had cover at the beginning - you would have been within your rights to provide him a bonus for it against the spot check to notice him at the beginning of the encounter (when determining surprise). It is one of those "circumstance" types of things that the DM adjudicates for the beginning of combat and determining awareness.

The Dragon had 22 ranks in Hide, -8 for size, and a +10 bonus to Hide checks. The "Guardian at the Gates of Forlorn", (the Dragon) was hiding in the swamp, so I rolled to establish how well he had hidden himself up until the characters got there. Sorceror's spot chech result 26, I rolled a 2. So he Spotted the Dragon, had line of effect, and went for it.

 

[Brace Cormaeril]

Tactics wise - a dragon is generally more effective attacking from the air then on the ground.

Other than spells - most ranged weapons will have a hard time harming it. Thus negating the fighter and other melee combatants. These are the ones that tend to really put a hurt on a dragon - once properly buffed and in melee.

Hit and run tactics suit a dragon very well, using their "spells" and breath weapons to greater effect.

The next dragon encounter for this party will include 2 mature adult white dragons and their gargantuan white mate, with a large brood of juveniles. I will definitely use hit-and-run tactics in this encounter to full efficacy; thanks for your comments.