Mustrum_Ridcully
Legend
You mean, like the party´s Fighter?Thanee said:Dominate does only work with a creature of the appropriate CR around, and can be dispelled.
Bye
Thanee
And you can banish summoned creatures with the appropriate spells ...
CR ranges for Summon Monster I-IX?
- Thread starter Pax
- Start date
And you can banish summoned creatures with the appropriate spells ...
@Thanee:
Summon Monster can also be dispelled (creature by creature, of course).
And except in unusual circumstances, many encounters WILL be with a creature of the appropriate CR. OR HIGHER. As Mustrum points out, the BBEG using it on the party's fighter(s) makes forone HECK of a shift in power.
CR of just above half caster level ... is just not good enough, IMO. Maybe CR 2 points below caster level, but the majorproblem there is, 9th level spells you gt at 17th level, so as a 20th level character, you're REALLY getting stuff FIVE CR below caster level. Meh.
@Thorian:
Soryy, but that's not how the Aura works. The damage they take is what non-tanar'ri within 30' also take (with a Fortitude save for half):
Note, especially, that the damage "rebound" happens in the instant the jovoc is DEALT the damage, not afte the damage resolves. So, yes, if you hit a 1hp jovoc with a 30-point attack, the Aura sends 30hp out to all non-tanar'ri within it's aura ... and then the hapless jovoc dies.
Which would IMO be partially why these otherwise vanilla-bland, ho-hum "demons" are CR5, to begin with.
Summon Monster can also be dispelled (creature by creature, of course).
And except in unusual circumstances, many encounters WILL be with a creature of the appropriate CR. OR HIGHER. As Mustrum points out, the BBEG using it on the party's fighter(s) makes forone HECK of a shift in power.
CR of just above half caster level ... is just not good enough, IMO. Maybe CR 2 points below caster level, but the majorproblem there is, 9th level spells you gt at 17th level, so as a 20th level character, you're REALLY getting stuff FIVE CR below caster level. Meh.
@Thorian:
Soryy, but that's not how the Aura works. The damage they take is what non-tanar'ri within 30' also take (with a Fortitude save for half):
MM2 said:
Note, especially, that the damage "rebound" happens in the instant the jovoc is DEALT the damage, not afte the damage resolves. So, yes, if you hit a 1hp jovoc with a 30-point attack, the Aura sends 30hp out to all non-tanar'ri within it's aura ... and then the hapless jovoc dies.
Which would IMO be partially why these otherwise vanilla-bland, ho-hum "demons" are CR5, to begin with.
Liquidsabre
Explorer
*ignore* Gah! Wrong thread! *ignore*
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Geoff Watson
First Post
Just allowing any creature of a certain CR or less is very foolish on behalf of the DM. I'm amazed that these grossly overpowered suggestions are being considered at all.
Why bother yourself with adventuring?
Just summon a few adventurers and get them to adventure on your behalf.
Geoff.
Why bother yourself with adventuring?
Just summon a few adventurers and get them to adventure on your behalf.
Geoff.
@Bauglir: The Jovocs in question are from a Summon Monster spell, not characters in their own right. But yes, encoutner-wise, a bunch of Jovoc "Frenzied Berzerkers" and an evil Cleric or two to keep 'em alive afterwards, woul be VERY nasty, indeed.
@Geoff: I don't think it would be foolish. Cap each spell at a CR of up to twice it's spell-level, or two CR less than the caster level of the person doing thesummoning, and have a SINGLE LIST to select from.
Heck, makeit so the "multiple creatures" effect is from being able to, say, decide "I have up to 14 CR, so I'll take this CR 8 critter, and these two CR 3 critters, with this casting of the spell". That'd be a Summon Monster VII, and of course a caster level of 7+ (it'd have to be 13+, due to the level of the spell itself, of course).
The beauty would be, the other guy could say "well, the heck with multiple creatures, I just want this one CR14 creature", when casting the same spell at the same caster level.
@Geoff: I don't think it would be foolish. Cap each spell at a CR of up to twice it's spell-level, or two CR less than the caster level of the person doing thesummoning, and have a SINGLE LIST to select from.
Heck, makeit so the "multiple creatures" effect is from being able to, say, decide "I have up to 14 CR, so I'll take this CR 8 critter, and these two CR 3 critters, with this casting of the spell". That'd be a Summon Monster VII, and of course a caster level of 7+ (it'd have to be 13+, due to the level of the spell itself, of course).
The beauty would be, the other guy could say "well, the heck with multiple creatures, I just want this one CR14 creature", when casting the same spell at the same caster level.
Bauglir
First Post
It's a good system - On the note that someone raised earlier about using ECL instead of CR due to the influence of special abilities, I would suggest that the hit dice of the creature is not really relevant to these abilities, although it IS relevant to the CR for the creature.
Therefore I would suggest using the LA of the creature (rather than ECL), or the CR (whichever is highest) as the reference point, using a restriction such as (caster level - 4)
Rapidly descending into house rules territory I am aware
Therefore I would suggest using the LA of the creature (rather than ECL), or the CR (whichever is highest) as the reference point, using a restriction such as (caster level - 4)
Rapidly descending into house rules territory I am aware
Mephistopheles
First Post
Pax said:
Led by a Jovoc Wiz17+ who has cast hide life.
Thanee
First Post
Yeah, but he has a save. Summon spells always succeed, normally.Mustrum_Ridcully said:
The difference with the dispel is, that the summoned creature disappears, the dominated creature will most probably turn on the one that did that to it. Higher risk, higher gain, sounds like a fair deal to me.
Bye
Thanee
