CR ranges for Summon Monster I-IX?

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Dominate does only work with a creature of the appropriate CR around, and can be dispelled.

Bye
Thanee

You mean, like the party´s Fighter?
And you can banish summoned creatures with the appropriate spells ...

 

[Pax]

@Thanee:
Summon Monster can also be dispelled (creature by creature, of course).

And except in unusual circumstances, many encounters WILL be with a creature of the appropriate CR. OR HIGHER. As Mustrum points out, the BBEG using it on the party's fighter(s) makes forone HECK of a shift in power.

CR of just above half caster level ... is just not good enough, IMO. Maybe CR 2 points below caster level, but the majorproblem there is, 9th level spells you gt at 17th level, so as a 20th level character, you're REALLY getting stuff FIVE CR below caster level. Meh.


@Thorian:
Soryy, but that's not how the Aura works. The damage they take is what non-tanar'ri within 30' also take (with a Fortitude save for half):

Aura of Retribution (Su): This effect is always active in a 30-foot spread centered on the Jovoc. Whenever the creature takes damage form any source, every non-tanar'ri within the area immediately takes an equal amount of damage. A successful Fortitude saving throw (DC 15) halves the damage. (For example, if an opponent deals 12 points of damage to a jovoc, that opponent and every other non-tanar'ri within 30' also immediately take 12 points of damage, or 6 points with a successful fortitude save.) Regardless ofthe source of the damage to the jovoc, the damage dealt to non-tanar'ri by this effect is not subject to negationor reduction because of resistance, immunity, damage reduction, spell resistance, or the like.

Note, especially, that the damage "rebound" happens in the instant the jovoc is DEALT the damage, not afte the damage resolves. So, yes, if you hit a 1hp jovoc with a 30-point attack, the Aura sends 30hp out to all non-tanar'ri within it's aura ... and then the hapless jovoc dies.

Which would IMO be partially why these otherwise vanilla-bland, ho-hum "demons" are CR5, to begin with.

 

[Bauglir]

And especially since THESE Jovocs are Summoned, so they won't die ... they'll all just Coup De Grace their own selves - or something to that nature - to deal lots of retributive damage. ^_^

Were I a cleric-type, I'd do that with a Mass Harm or similar. "Oooo, look, eight Jovocs within thirty feet of you - I'll cast this ONE spell, they'll fail their saves voluntarily and each take 150 damage ... sucks to be you!" ^_^

But I'm not, so, oh well.

Take one Jovoc with suicidal tendencies, add at least 4 levels of Frenzied Berzerker. Blend thoroughly. Liberal use of disintegrate and harm recommended.

 

[Liquidsabre]

*ignore* Gah! Wrong thread! *ignore*

 

[Geoff Watson]

Just allowing any creature of a certain CR or less is very foolish on behalf of the DM. I'm amazed that these grossly overpowered suggestions are being considered at all.

Why bother yourself with adventuring?
Just summon a few adventurers and get them to adventure on your behalf.

Geoff.

 

[Bauglir]

Just allowing any creature of a certain CR or less is very foolish on behalf of the DM. I'm amazed that these grossly overpowered suggestions are being considered at all.

Why bother yourself with adventuring?
Just summon a few adventurers and get them to adventure on your behalf.

Geoff.

Well, for 1 rd/level anyway

 

[Pax]

@Bauglir: The Jovocs in question are from a Summon Monster spell, not characters in their own right. But yes, encoutner-wise, a bunch of Jovoc "Frenzied Berzerkers" and an evil Cleric or two to keep 'em alive afterwards, woul be VERY nasty, indeed.

@Geoff: I don't think it would be foolish. Cap each spell at a CR of up to twice it's spell-level, or two CR less than the caster level of the person doing thesummoning, and have a SINGLE LIST to select from.

Heck, makeit so the "multiple creatures" effect is from being able to, say, decide "I have up to 14 CR, so I'll take this CR 8 critter, and these two CR 3 critters, with this casting of the spell". That'd be a Summon Monster VII, and of course a caster level of 7+ (it'd have to be 13+, due to the level of the spell itself, of course).

The beauty would be, the other guy could say "well, the heck with multiple creatures, I just want this one CR14 creature", when casting the same spell at the same caster level.

 

[Bauglir]

It's a good system - On the note that someone raised earlier about using ECL instead of CR due to the influence of special abilities, I would suggest that the hit dice of the creature is not really relevant to these abilities, although it IS relevant to the CR for the creature.

Therefore I would suggest using the LA of the creature (rather than ECL), or the CR (whichever is highest) as the reference point, using a restriction such as (caster level - 4)

Rapidly descending into house rules territory I am aware

 

[Mephistopheles]

But yes, encoutner-wise, a bunch of Jovoc "Frenzied Berzerkers" and an evil Cleric or two to keep 'em alive afterwards, woul be VERY nasty, indeed.

Led by a Jovoc Wiz17+ who has cast hide life.

 

[Thanee]

You mean, like the party´s Fighter?

Yeah, but he has a save. Summon spells always succeed, normally.

The difference with the dispel is, that the summoned creature disappears, the dominated creature will most probably turn on the one that did that to it. Higher risk, higher gain, sounds like a fair deal to me.

Bye
Thanee