CR reality check -- 4xECL13s v. CR16??

[SnowHeart]

All,

I just want a quick reality check here because I feel like I've been a bit hard on my players lately. The group consists of 4 ECL 13 PCs (shadowcaster, dwarven defender, monk and druid), an ECL 11 cohort (bard/evangalist), an ECL 12 NPC necromancer and a (temporarily) charmed ECL 9 rogue.

They are about to go into a fight with a CR 16 huge black dragon. We're playing in Dragonlance and I believe dragons ought to be powerful, frightful foes so I intend to play the dragon to the hilt, using spells from the Spell Compendium and a host of devilish tactics but all of them strictly RAW.

The fight is a capstone or "boss" fight at the end of a chapter, so it ought to be a serious threat but winnable if the party plays smart (obviously).

Thoughts?
~Snowy

 

[freyar]

Seems pretty reasonable to me.

 

[Magesmiley]

It is potentially doable. Keep in mind that if the party is injured or low on resources when they come into the fight that they'll probably lose. Similarly, if they stumble into the encoutner rather than knowing that it is coming (and thus have time to prepare), the odds of fatalities will go up dramatically too.

 

[SnowHeart]

"Potentially doable" is, I think, exactly what I'm looking for.

Resources will be a question left largely up to the party, to be honest. Although they are under a clock so there is a sense of urgency, they still have enough time to rest once more before the final fight. And, they are going into the fight knowing it is the dragon's lair, so they will not only have time to prep before going in, but I'm also planning on giving them two rounds after they enter the lair to adjust their tactics and spells for the space before actually springing the dragon on them.

 

[aboyd]

I used the encounter calculator. Near the lower right side it shows how dangerous the encounter will be. For what you have planned, it rates the encounter like this:

Difficulty: Very Difficult
Advice: Pull out all the stops!

So this is an encounter that will not kill them, assuming that they are willing to use up their stock of magic -- magic potions, charges of wands, all their spells, etc.

It seems like a nice encounter -- since it will require heavy use of everything they've got, giving them time to adapt won't be a "cheat" where you're giving them too much advantage. It will just mean that they probably get to live.

 

[NewJeffCT]

I used the encounter calculator. Near the lower right side it shows how dangerous the encounter will be. For what you have planned, it rates the encounter like this:

Difficulty: Very Difficult
Advice: Pull out all the stops!

So this is an encounter that will not kill them, assuming that they are willing to use up their stock of magic -- magic potions, charges of wands, all their spells, etc.

It seems like a nice encounter -- since it will require heavy use of everything they've got, giving them time to adapt won't be a "cheat" where you're giving them too much advantage. It will just mean that they probably get to live.

I do something like that ahead of time as well. When trying to judge what level the main bad guy should be, or how many extra minions I should add on, I tend to draw the line at easier side of the border of "very difficult" and "overpowering" So, if I gave the main bad guy one more level, or added in a couple more thugs/mooks/minions, it would then be rated "overpowering"

 

[Rhun]

Sounds very doable to me, especially if the characters are full on their resources. The dragon is going to have to divide its fire between PCs and cohorts, whereas the PCs are going to be able to combine their efforts against a single foe. Judging from personal experience, I don't think this encounter will be as tough for your players as you might think, if they pull out all the stops.

 

[kevin_video]

I used the encounter calculator. Near the lower right side it shows how dangerous the encounter will be. For what you have planned, it rates the encounter like this:

Difficulty: Very Difficult
Advice: Pull out all the stops!

That's pretty good. It's even more advanced than the encounter level calculator d20 Encounter Calculator :: Pen, Paper, & Pixel that I use (don't know how to use the linking ability).

The scenario seems relatively fair. Maybe not as fair as they'd like it though. The only thing I usually worry about is range and AC. If my players need to constantly roll 16+ just to hit their opponent, that's unfair. The ratio is too low. How many of my players are ranged? Can any of them fly and take this thing on in the air? Dragons don't usually sit there and let players beat on them. They take off to the air, and hover just within the range of their breath weapon. You might take pity on them and do a fly-by attack so they might be able to hit the dragon if they've readied an action, but I will say though that the rogue is most likely going to be the most useless one in the fight.

Generally speaking, the difficulty level goes up if the players are reserved to melee ground battles.