Craft/Profession
- Thread starter Shroomy
- Start date
MadMaligor
First Post
You know, after reading all that I expected alot more from just about all of you...in other words...I was interested in what you were bringing to the dinner table so to speak, and not all the 
for tat regarding what amounts to the most obvious house rule of house rules.
My system has been pretty much the same since '79 and, quite frankly, Im glad it will continue unabated without me having to explain to some petulant newbie to our family why the PHB/DMG sucks slimey river rocks.
There are five levels in a profession Novice, Artisan, Journeyman, Master, Artist.
Each player to start can choose if they wish to take a background profession based on player history (at times I allow two if they make sense together but rarely) but I have the final say so (in other words you are not going to be the former legendary master sculpter of Waterdeep...that job is taken). You start off at Artisan level (Novice for the second if I allowed it).
Levels of skill are aquired by spending off time. Anyone can take any profession given the roleplaying situation and availability to do so. 1-2 months is enough for most players to become a Novice in most crafts (I decide whether more or less time is needed, not you and your ideas about joining the local barber college, though feel free to give me a good chuckle). 2 years are required for Artisan, 5 years for Journeyman, 10 years for Master, 20 years for Artist.
Novice players understand the basics of the profession, but arent likely to have reliable information or produce reliable goods. In other words they can barely tell junk from antiques and are more likely to poison you with their new recipie for frog leg soup than not. Artisans are the basic backbone workers of craftsmen. They know what they are doing in a general sense, can provide basic and reasonable services, and produce goods that will still funtion after some use (ie...your basic apprentice who knows his way around the forge or a farmer whos seen a few winters). Journeyman are professionals. They know the ins and outs. They can provide good and services that are reliable, and withstand scrutiny or the ravages of time. Their work is solid but may lack style or flare.
Masters and Artists are much the same. The only difference between the two is usually renown. Both can produce master quality goods and services (magic item quality in game terms). Their knowledge of the profession is near complete, with the edge going toward the Artist (but not neccessarily flawless in either case, though skill checks are a rarity). The Artist level is not available to all professions, but once gained will influence reactions from NPC's, call for higher prices or pay for services, and will generate a moderate amount of notoriety both good and bad (based on roleplay where applicable).
Whenever there was a question of ability I used a skill check and based it off a stat (or choice of stats if there was a reason for an option) and used my discretion to include a modifier.
In almost 30 years of gaming I have never seen a player reach the Artist level, and only a handful I can think of attained Master status. PC's save the world, they dont make cabinets for the princess in an effort to win her affection. Killing the dragon that ate her brother to save the kingdom from peril is a bit more endearing. If you want to become the most famous baker 100 miles in any direction from the city of Greyhawk, well thats real cute and we are all happy for you *rollseyes*. But the minute you derail the campaign to rid the world of the legion of undead lead by the Lich King Azarael now covering the world in darkness, please pick up your character sheet and get outa my house.
I give my players an opportunity to use their professions in every campaing, one way or another, and they get to shine for a moment or two. But no showboating is allowed and the party is not going off on a tangent so you can have time to make a gold or two by displaying the fabulous quilts you stiched during a month off. No your ideas about how some street urchin might try to steal one do not make for a good side adventure for the party thief, but thanks for your input.
So...4E works perfect. In fact I think Im going to incorporate the group skill checks to assist for those roleplay moments like the beer for the King situation mentioned earlier.
Well sorry for jumping in there with such a lengthy discourse about what one might do to include a profession system. Please...feel free to get back to bickering about the truley meaningless. =)
MM
for tat regarding what amounts to the most obvious house rule of house rules.My system has been pretty much the same since '79 and, quite frankly, Im glad it will continue unabated without me having to explain to some petulant newbie to our family why the PHB/DMG sucks slimey river rocks.
There are five levels in a profession Novice, Artisan, Journeyman, Master, Artist.
Each player to start can choose if they wish to take a background profession based on player history (at times I allow two if they make sense together but rarely) but I have the final say so (in other words you are not going to be the former legendary master sculpter of Waterdeep...that job is taken). You start off at Artisan level (Novice for the second if I allowed it).
Levels of skill are aquired by spending off time. Anyone can take any profession given the roleplaying situation and availability to do so. 1-2 months is enough for most players to become a Novice in most crafts (I decide whether more or less time is needed, not you and your ideas about joining the local barber college, though feel free to give me a good chuckle). 2 years are required for Artisan, 5 years for Journeyman, 10 years for Master, 20 years for Artist.
Novice players understand the basics of the profession, but arent likely to have reliable information or produce reliable goods. In other words they can barely tell junk from antiques and are more likely to poison you with their new recipie for frog leg soup than not. Artisans are the basic backbone workers of craftsmen. They know what they are doing in a general sense, can provide basic and reasonable services, and produce goods that will still funtion after some use (ie...your basic apprentice who knows his way around the forge or a farmer whos seen a few winters). Journeyman are professionals. They know the ins and outs. They can provide good and services that are reliable, and withstand scrutiny or the ravages of time. Their work is solid but may lack style or flare.
Masters and Artists are much the same. The only difference between the two is usually renown. Both can produce master quality goods and services (magic item quality in game terms). Their knowledge of the profession is near complete, with the edge going toward the Artist (but not neccessarily flawless in either case, though skill checks are a rarity). The Artist level is not available to all professions, but once gained will influence reactions from NPC's, call for higher prices or pay for services, and will generate a moderate amount of notoriety both good and bad (based on roleplay where applicable).
Whenever there was a question of ability I used a skill check and based it off a stat (or choice of stats if there was a reason for an option) and used my discretion to include a modifier.
In almost 30 years of gaming I have never seen a player reach the Artist level, and only a handful I can think of attained Master status. PC's save the world, they dont make cabinets for the princess in an effort to win her affection. Killing the dragon that ate her brother to save the kingdom from peril is a bit more endearing. If you want to become the most famous baker 100 miles in any direction from the city of Greyhawk, well thats real cute and we are all happy for you *rollseyes*. But the minute you derail the campaign to rid the world of the legion of undead lead by the Lich King Azarael now covering the world in darkness, please pick up your character sheet and get outa my house.
I give my players an opportunity to use their professions in every campaing, one way or another, and they get to shine for a moment or two. But no showboating is allowed and the party is not going off on a tangent so you can have time to make a gold or two by displaying the fabulous quilts you stiched during a month off. No your ideas about how some street urchin might try to steal one do not make for a good side adventure for the party thief, but thanks for your input.
So...4E works perfect. In fact I think Im going to incorporate the group skill checks to assist for those roleplay moments like the beer for the King situation mentioned earlier.
Well sorry for jumping in there with such a lengthy discourse about what one might do to include a profession system. Please...feel free to get back to bickering about the truley meaningless. =)
MM
That One Guy
First Post
yw!Mustrum_Ridcully said:Thanks.
Now I don't have to die ignorant.
Well, at least not as ignorant as I was before your post.
...get out of my mind meats... even though you did it first.MadMaligor said:
That One Guy said:
Last edited:
Kid Charlemagne
I am the Very Model of a Modern Moderator
Lizard said:
Well, in the professor case, he'd use his History skill. But thats a seperate issue from Craft.
LowSpine
First Post
I would like a non-combat class system. This would be a class that runs with, but mechanically separate, to your combat class.
The class would incorporate social class, reputation, profession, craft skills, etc.
The levels of your non-combat and combat classes would be separate. You could be a
level 1 fighter, but a level 20 soldier
or a level 10 rogue but a level 2 organised criminal
or a level 5 warlord but a level 8 trainer,
or a level 3 wizard but a level 15 farmer.
The classes would have their own roleplay benefits. Social standing may go up and offer bonuses to socializing with snobs, money go up through running a business or creating a perfect sword through devoting oneself to weapon smithing.
Just an idea.
The class would incorporate social class, reputation, profession, craft skills, etc.
The levels of your non-combat and combat classes would be separate. You could be a
level 1 fighter, but a level 20 soldier
or a level 10 rogue but a level 2 organised criminal
or a level 5 warlord but a level 8 trainer,
or a level 3 wizard but a level 15 farmer.
The classes would have their own roleplay benefits. Social standing may go up and offer bonuses to socializing with snobs, money go up through running a business or creating a perfect sword through devoting oneself to weapon smithing.
Just an idea.
Maybe it's because I'm European, but that comment almost made me jump in the chair*. A noble making his own horseshoes just seems so... wrong to me. Not in a moral sense in any way but it's hard trying to imagine the sceneThat One Guy said:
.*Not really, I couldn't come up with a good description of my reaction.
EATherrian
First Post
This is an interesting discussion so I think I'll throw my 2 copper pieces in here. I actually think that profession or crafting skills should take the place of other skills. The implication is that they were learning this craft before adventuring and that is their skill set. It might not work for people that only want skills that effect combat, but I generally like more depth. I do like the idea of a separate pool of points to choose from maybe create something like background points that can be used.
Here is my suggested house rule build from my previous post :
PCs can have up to 5(feel free to change this number) background features on their character sheet.
A background feature can be called for to get the famous circumstances bonus (+2).
A player with less than 5 background features can create one on the fly when he needs the bonus. If the DM accept it (it would be good to ask the other players around), the background feature must be written down.
The DM may call a -2 circumstances penalty using one of the background feature. At this time, the player can choose to remove this background feature from his character sheet.
PCs can have up to 5(feel free to change this number) background features on their character sheet.
A background feature can be called for to get the famous circumstances bonus (+2).
A player with less than 5 background features can create one on the fly when he needs the bonus. If the DM accept it (it would be good to ask the other players around), the background feature must be written down.
The DM may call a -2 circumstances penalty using one of the background feature. At this time, the player can choose to remove this background feature from his character sheet.
skeptic said:
I like this.
It also provides a nice guideline for building quick-n-dirty NPCs that still have little 'tricks' to distinguish them.
(Barmaid, +2 attack with pewter mug, +2 Armor Defense against hurled objects)
(Jimmy the snitch, +2 Streetwise, +2 Insight, home town only)
A simple guideline of "2 +2s" makes for Q&D variants on Genericus Commonerus Minionus.
This actually works better in 4e than 3e because The Math (tm) means a +2 bonus is often just as useful at high levels as at low ones. Perhaps a bit less, but it doesn't vanish into the Sea Of Buffs.
Blackeagle
First Post
GnomeWorks said:
Isn't this exactly what Wizards has done? I'm sure that since they left out craft and profession skills some third party will fill this niche as soon as possible. Followed quickly by the "Brewmaking: Nectar of the Gods" splatbook.
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