Craft/Profession

[PeterWeller]

Sure it is. Or at least, it CAN be if you're open to not railroading absolutely everything about the game.

Holy hyperbole, Batman!

Also, if you want to roll for it, it's not like you can't. Have the dwarf make what you think is an appropriate ability check with an appropriate bonus against an appropriate difficulty.

 

[hong]

I can't speak for anyone else, but I find the best plot twists come from the dice.

The best plot twists come from the dice, when contrasted against what would be the default flow of events. If you expect nothing, then you can never be surprised.

 

[Fallen Seraph]

A very easy way Lizard for you to do this, is you from knowing what your PCs background is, give the PC who is brewing more chances to succeed in the brewing skill-challenge based on him being extremely good at brewing.

There is still that element of chance with the dice, while not needing a specific skill, and you get the same affect.

Note: I dunno how beer is brewed, so just making this up:

Hell, you can be part of a team. One person's skill challenge would be to use Nature to find the best barley, say a Wizard would need to do Arcana skill challenge to magically keep the fire heating the cauldron at the right temperature, etc.

The total success and failures would go into a single skill challenge to determine how well/poorly they did.

 

[MatrexsVigil]

There isn't much info in the DMG (on page 11 at least) about actually making Craft/Profession important, outside of letting people's backstories actually mean something in game.

There was a post sometime ago by someone WotC important that said if say, Sailing was important in the game, make it a skill. Characters don't have to drop tons of skill points into a skill to be good at it anymore.

Say you did this with Blacksmithing. Characters who weren't trained in this skill could say, make a nail or a simple horse shoe or maybe even kinda fix their sword/armor after a tough battle. This is represented by all characters getting at least Ability Score modifier +1/2 level to all skill checks. So an adventurer will have picked up at least some knowledge of blacksmithing, even if it's to iron back out his own set of platemail.

The Trained character can not only perform basic feats of blacksmithing but can actually craft swords, armor, locks, and other complex items. This is due to actually being Trained in a skill (since this is a qualifier for being able to do specific things with some skills) and having a +5 bonus in it. And if they want to be really good at it, they can take skill training for another +3.

If you want professions/crafts to be important enough, make it a skill, roughly define what unskilled and those trained can do, and 'put' it on everyone's skill list so if they want to start off trained in it, they can. Or better yet, give everyone one free skill Training in a profession/craft of their choice.

Easy-peasy-lemon-squeezy.

-P.C.

 

[Tenebras]

Different strokes.

I find rolling for every little thing annoying. I have absolutely no problem having two different characters, one of whom is an excellent blacksmith and the other who just says he is. As far as I'm concerned, neither needs to have any skill points in smithing at all.

And when it comes time to try to impress the dwarf king with the beer, if you decide that you need a roll to decide whether the beer was good or bad, go ahead and roll. If you roll a 20 the king loves your beer and makes you brewmaster, huzzah! If you roll a 1 he actually hates hoppy beers and the hopheads who make them. Oops. Go directly to jail. But at no point does the person sitting at the table need to put skill points on their character sheet. Maybe in your game that's how you do it, but its not how I do mine, and I don't care for the style. Lucky for me the people who wrote the game don't either.

 

[marune]

The problem with stuff "written in the background" is its usage during encounters, i.e. when XP is given.

When they are used to flesh out things, they are fine.

What's the problem? Problem is to be fair to all the players. One of them can be lucky and have wrote a background that inspire the DM a lot while the DM feel another one is rather uninspiring, etc.

During combat, the players don't rely on DM's feeling about their favourite fighting style to handle the amount of damage they do after all.

One solution is :

Players don't write background, or very little.

However, during play, they can create a "background element" when they want to get this +2 modifier that will give them the possibility to beat the DC.

If the players around and the DM like the "background element" enough, it works (and it is written down).

 

[hong]

Remember, everything is a skill now. It just isn't always written on your character sheet.

Craft (brewing) as an ad-hoc skill check would be Int vs DC (whatever). Don't forget the +1/2 level bonus to the Int check. If necessary, add a circumstance bonus (I'm pretty sure 4E hasn't outlawed this) to represent background knowledge on the part of the character.

 

[keterys]

All the more reason not to waste a limited resource on something that is worth far less than other options - eg, Skill Training (Basketweaving) vs. Skill Training (Athletics)

You nod and go 'You were an expert basketweaver before you discovered your gift for magic, and now you use those same skills to weave magic? Sounds great' and the DM goes 'hey, maybe I'll have her old teacher come up, or somebody go, wait,aren't you X? I have one of your baskets from 5 years ago and it's still strong'

More flavor = good.

If you feel a need to roll dice for basketweaving or brewing, you _may as well_ roll a die for how well somebody shaved prior to the audience with the King and how well they swagger in... and woe to the poor saps who didn't take ranks in Personal Grooming or Careful Walking

Sailing, though, in a sailing game? You could add it, if you wanted to make sailing rolls. Or assume folks had it, and that athletics and acrobatics can cover the physical stuff, and Perception or Nature (or History, hell) the navigation.

I'm good with the list I've got, thanks. This way I can give my players background skills freely, or give my own characters background skills, without it being mathematically stupid. I'm a fan of not being mathematically stupid

You decide to brew a special beer to impress the Dwarf King when you next visit him. How does it turn out?

DM's best friend, +2 to a relevant check - easier to use diplomacy or bluff most likely. Unless he's paranoid or hates people bribing him, then maybe a penalty.

Of course, that's no different if you just bought him some beer and brought it.

Which is totally okay with me!

 

[marune]

Useless post.

 

[ryryguy]

I can already tell you that, as a house rule if I play 4e, each PC will get one trained "background" skill of their choice and pick a stat to base it on. Anytime it comes up and it might matter how well they did, either for a plot point or just because it would be nice to know, they can roll for it.

Sounds great!

In fact I'd venture that there isn't much of a problem here. What you're proposing may technically be a "house rule" but it fits the 4e skill system so well, it seems like it would be nearly seamless. It would be harder to do something like this with a point-based system. The simplicity of the "1/2 level" mechanic does seem like it's going to help promote easy customization.

There's a feat that gives you training in a skill too, right? Could be applied to learn an additional "background" skill as well. Even two of them if the DM feels generous.

The sort of "background" skills I'm imagining tend to be more highly specialized - the difference between a trained and untrained brewer feels like it ought to be greater than trained and untrained <useful adventurer skill>. I could see maybe applying a -5 penalty to checks made if the skill is not trained. Maybe.

The only caveat I'd have for this house rule is that the "background" skill really shouldn't have any use in combat... no "Profession (sailor)" check instead of Acrobatics on the rolling ship deck, to use Mearls' example. (Alternatively, as another mentioned, if the game is heavily ship oriented, write up Sailor as a full-on mainline skill.)