Joe, the human fighter is a blacksmith. He learned it from his father, and has been taught blacksmithing his whole life(skill focus). And he completed his apprenticeship(4 ranks) while learning how to fight. Joe is a little smarter than others(13 int), too. He is 18 years old, three years over adult age, the average starting age for a person like himself, and has been conscripted into the army.
Joe often gets tasked to do blacksmith duty, as he is good at it. He's given two assistants. Apprentices who do not have the lifelong training he does. He's also been given high-quality tools(masterwork) by the army, and equipment.
While the scenario you depict is certainly plausible, how often does it happen? A PC isn't going to get stuck smithing arms and armor (and doing ONLY that) for the army for his entire career... sure, I could see an expert (NPC class) smith who works for the army. So we'll say he's an expert, for the sake of argument. I wouldn't see a 1st level (novice) smith being given apprentices OR masterwork tools, either - he'd be working as an apprentice himself for a level or two until they see what he can do. But we'll assume, again for the sake of argument, that he gets all this soon after his induction - maybe his father worked for the army too.
He can make 2 longswords in a week.
In two weeks, he can make a masterwork longsword and another regular longsword.
Wow. I'm not disputing your assertion, because it is correct, but wow. A novice smith can churn out longswords in half the time as normal, or make masterwork items at 1st level.
So yes. A 1st level PC could easily make plate mail. If he has a year to work on it for 8 hours every day.
I actually said
masterwork plate mail, not that it makes a whole lot of difference - it's only 2 points of DC, and Joe the fighter/expert could easily make that; he'd just take a long time to do it, like you said (34 weeks, actually, assuming DC 22 on his checks). But then, plate mail's
supposed to take a long time to make - IRL, it took about a year to churn out a set.
But, my assertion wasn't that they CAN, it's whether or not they should be able to. Plate mail, as we obviously agree, is difficult to make - it should be in the range where only accomplished smiths (L5ish) can even attempt it, let alone make it. A novice smith shouldn't be making masterwork
anything, except maybe small or easy items - daggers, leather armor, etc.
And thank god that a 1st level character can make plate mail, otherwise we'd be playing in a world where a blacksmith with a 50 years of work experience, great talent and best education/masters, could still not make a full plate armor... unless he spent a few months killing kobolds in the forest.
How do we get NPC classes above L1, then? 4th level commoners, 10th level experts, 6th level aristocrats - how did they gain the XP for those levels? They weren't out in the woods killing kobolds; they were doing their jobs. When you're dealing with NPCs, you kind of have to set aside the D&D psychology that "You can only gain XP from killing stuff" - XP is knowledge, experience, stuff you learn, not just a means to gaining more power. An armorer, for instance, who works in a small village and never makes anything more exciting than the odd plowshare is not likely to be more than 2nd-3rd level, because he's not learning much in his craft. OTOH, Joe the smith from the above example is making all kinds of stuff - weapons, armor, shields, learning how to repair stuff, and maybe even getting the chance to work on the odd magical weapon. He's going to go far in his career - 10th or 12th level - though it'll take him 20 years to do it.
DM: "Okay, but it'll take you 50 years."
I don't think that Take 10 makes it any slower. The average result of rolling is only 10.5, plus if you roll you waste time every failed attempt. So unless your Craft bonus is so high that you succeed on a 1, it probably takes LESS time if you Take 10 at every check.
You're misreading my intent. I wasn't implying that taking 10 makes it longer - I know the average roll is 10.5, and that's why they made the rule. The meaning of that statement is related to this one:
I do agree, though, that higher-quality materials should take longer to work... just not THAT long.
And yes, I was exaggerating juuust a bit.
Or in a pinch pull out a 2nd ed PHB (which actually gave times for each item, presumably based on research rather than mechanics)
Yes, they are - it's a balance between realism and what's fun for the players; it's what I used when I was assigning times for my system.
insisting on extra time for special materials would make handing out a nearly finished ogre -sized suit of mithiril chain (recent adventure) or admantine trade bars (vault of the drow) a lot less fun. Or even make skinning a dragon (next week?) pointless - the hide is just another piece of treasure rather than the chance at amazingly prestigious armor.
Wow... our group would jump at something like that - it's a great opportunity for RP. Find a smith capable of working with the material, maybe get him a few items he needs/wants as payment, then gloss over the time it takes him to make it (good excuse for downtime activities like spell research, item creation, etc., or you could just go adventuring in the meantime), and voila - a new weapon, suit of armor, or whatever.
