Create 'original' weapons always need craft skill?

[greycastle]

I've just recently read the first two books of the Clerics Quintet (R.A.Salvatore) and had my ideas of creating unusual weapons reinforced.

One idea i had for a long time was attaching a small vial to a crossbow bolt, or simply firing from a crossbow a vial of say holy water if undead, or a small vial of alchemists fire *very useful if the creature has been 'oiled'*

However, after reading the books, i realised 'holloewed darts' would work well, where the liquid could be stored inside, such as when Cadderly loaded the darts with Oil of Impact. The idea struck me that if you could bless holy water at possibly a higher level, you could create an extremly potent weapon vs. undead and evil outsiders, at a very cheap cost.

But would you be required to have the craft skill to create the hollowed darts for example? (currently my cleric has ranks at top in Concentration, Diplomacy, Knowledge (religion), spellcraft) and i feel i can't lose any skill points on that.

Could you simply make an untrained skill check, with the raw materials wasted? (not very expensive also, as it's simply a dart/crossbow bolt that must be hollowed out).

Also, what other materials, potions, could be used with generally mundane weapons?

Thanks ahead of time ^_^

 

[dcollins]

This requires house rules on the part of the DM. Inventing new weapon categories is not dealt with in the core rules.

You may wish to consult Sword & Fist p. 70-71 where it features an "Alchemists Arrow" ammunition type very similar to what you're seeking (1d4 fire damage, 75 gp price per arrow, 1/5 pound).

 

[greycastle]

but the idea i'm trying to bring across is a way to invent things, not buy them, though thanks for the suggestion...i'll look through the SaF tonight ^_^...however Alchemists arrows seem to lack, as the idea was to have the damage of a normal bolt (1d8 for a light crossbow) plus 1d6 (or some such) for whatever flask is in the bolt. And the thought of only 1d4, and 75 gps *collapses* not my idea.

Any more ideas? suggestions? anything i might tell/ask my DM?

 

[Geoff Watson]

I would definately require the appropriate skill.

Hollowing out a crossbow bolt to put enough 'special material' in it, while keeping it balanced enough to shoot straight and strong enough not to break when loaded would be a lot more difficult than you think.

Geoff.

 

[Hackenslash]

Suggestions for skills required !!!

Hello, Just thought I would had my suggestions to your post, as I have actually had a player in my own campaign ask the same questions after reading the same books by R.A Salvatore. I thought about it and decided to apply the Craft Bowyer/Fletcher skill as that was the most likely skill that would apply itself to the making and more importantly hollowing out of "Crossbow Bolts". After some smart alec suggested using the same methods for normal arrows I simply replied that the arrows would be too thin to attempt a successfull hollowing and still maintain it's flight integrity. So I set the DC for making the Bolt at 20 as it does require some skill to hollowout a bolt and still maintain the correct dimentions for flight etc...also I decided to let the PC's have a go at crafting various versions for holding different liquids, eg a Glass Bolt for holding Acid etc...but adjsuted the price and DC accordingly. I must admit to using the Alchemist's Fire idea to start as a base for cost, but used a little maths to re-calculate the formula for a more expensive material. Some might say that the Bowyer/Fletcher skill may not cover Crossbow bolts and it should be a Craft Weapon skill check instead, but eitherway it would still work. I also set the time to create one bolt at 1/2 day for wooden, 1 day for metal and 3 days for glass. By the way the PC's did manage to get a few "modified bolts" in their arsenal but the damage factor was not really a big difference in combat. You are looking at a 1d8 for light bolts plus maybe a 1d6 or 2d4 at best really depending on liquids used. Hope this helps.....

 

[greycastle]

Woo...it does help...

However, wouldn't Weaponsmithing cover Fletching/Bowyer? or at worst Bowmaking? Though Bowmaking i'd have thought would be more an Arrow thing, while Weaponsmithing for Bolts. The reason i ask, is because the Dwarf in our party decided to stay 'dwarfy' and refuse ranks in Climb, or Ride, and instead put them into Craft Skills. (though you did mention that later in your post about Weaponsmithing for bolts)

However, in the RA Salvatore books, i believe the character actually inserted the small vials Into the Bolts (actually, they called it darts in the book, so possible the 'mundane' damage should be reduced to say 1d6) and the vial Shattered as it Struck the target.

So I set the DC for making the Bolt at 20 as it does require some skill to hollowout a bolt and still maintain the correct dimentions for flight...
I also set the time to create one bolt at 1/2 day for wooden, 1 day for metal and 3 days for glass. By the way the PC's did manage to get a few "modified bolts" in their arsenal but the damage factor was not really a big difference in combat. You are looking at a 1d8 for light bolts plus maybe a 1d6 or 2d4 at best really depending on liquids used.

Still, how much Would the costs be approximately?
Heres what i've thought of so far:
Lets say first it's 10 gp for the alchemists fire (because of a highly poweful formula, simply in a small container, but only enough for 1 crossbow bolt) or simply 100gp which would give you a flask with enough potion to fill 10 speciall crafter crossbow bolts, then another 1 gp for every specially crafted Bolt (10x the price of a normal bolt). How much would a vial for the bolts be though?

What would the cost be to Purchase such bolts? Such as requesting the local blacksmith of the town to create to 50 specially made bolts, while your off saving the town from maurauding orcs, and having the crazy alchemist create you the vials with the desired potions? Any more ideas?

Thanks ahead

 

[Lord Pendragon]

I agree with Geoff. You'd have to have the appropriate skill. Further, I doubt I'd allow the crossbow bolts to do normal damage plus liquid damage. The arrowhead would have to be replaced with the liquid-filled capsule. Having a hollowed-out arrowhead would not hold enough of the liquid to be at all effective. I'd also probably assign a penalty to the attack roll, due to the poor balancing of such a projectile. Maybe -1 or -2, depending on the amount of liquid the arrow/bolt/dart delivered.

Cadderly's darts didn't do crossbow bolt damage, btw. All the damage was from the Oil of Impact. Perhaps you should look into Alchemy so you can develop the Oil, rather than worrying about the darts.

 

[dcollins]

the idea was to have the damage of a normal bolt (1d8 for a light crossbow) plus 1d6 (or some such) for whatever flask is in the bolt. And the thought of only 1d4, and 75 gps *collapses* not my idea.

You may not like it, but it stands as evidence that the D&D designers believe the balanced price for 1d4 ranged fire damage is about 75 gp.

 

[greycastle]

hmmm....very good point about the dart not actually doing any damage....

Whats the vital statistics of Oil of Impact? and what alchemy check would be needed to create it?