Creating a demi-human race and society

[wolff96]

Expansion into areas that aren't generally considered desirable, for one thing.

Primitive society = no air conditioning. But a hothouse climate is great for growing a lot of different fauna. A group (sub-group, faction, whatever) that can live in an uncomfortably hot area, only working at night and mostly sleeping away the day, would give you some interesting economic options.

The same applies to mining -- which even becomes safer. Pockets of flammable gas will not be immediately ignited -- no burning light sources -- and could most likely be detected before they became an issue. In addition, the work becomes somewhat less undesirable, simply because working underground in low/no lighting is less of a big deal.

I would actually expect the society to trend towards being LESS divided over day and night folks. Everyone can see in the dark. Unless they use a regimented working schedule -- a hold-over in modern times of the old sun-tied work system -- then people are going to sleep, eat, and work when it's the most efficient. This could easily lead to more fluid cycles and LOTS more 24-hour establishments.

Daytime drinking? Not a problem (or a social stigma), since it's assumed you were working during the night. Buying a fancy gown at 4am? No problem, there are multiple shifts of dress-makers.

I'd expect such a society -- given enough people -- would be far more productive than a 'standard' group of humans. People work when they want and when they're at their best and sleep whenever works for them. Farmers can work the fields day or night, improving harvests and planting cycles -- you can get the work done in fewer days, providing a better chance to get the seeds down or crops out before rains/winter/other undesirable conditions. Milling works the same way -- the river turns that wheel all night long, so let's have millers there feeding product into it all the time.

The biggest change of all is the one already mentioned... in a midevil-ish society, the hours of night are mostly dead time -- the hours of watchmen, thieves, and those with the least desirable jobs. By making that time accessible (for free, no torches or lanterns required) you've just added another 10 hours or so to the available time for all to live.

 

[GreatLemur]

Thanks. Got a question on Darkvision, though ... how much light is needed to spoil it?

I think you're thinking of infravision, which was screwed up by the presence of strong heat sources, such as torches. I suspect that was one of the reasons that 3E gave us this mysterious "darkvision", instead.

 

[Cthulhudrew]

How would the development of fire have been affected (if at all) by the possession of darkvision? I know that fire provides for other things besides just light in the darkness, obviously, but might the necessity to discover and possess it have changed, particularly in warmer climates? That could have a tremendous impact on societal development.

 

[Jeremy Ackerman-Yost]

How would the development of fire have been affected (if at all) by the possession of darkvision? I know that fire provides for other things besides just light in the darkness, obviously, but might the necessity to discover and possess it have changed, particularly in warmer climates? That could have a tremendous impact on societal development.

Fire is a prerequisite. We couldn't grow our brains without shrinking our gut (both tissues have enormous metabolic demands). As our brain got relatively larger our gut got relatively shorter. But the only reason we could shrink our gut and still get enough digestion done to maintain proper nutrition was because we had begun cooking many types of food. Cooking breaks up cell walls in plants and connective tissue and assorted hard to digest portions of animals, making the digestion process easier. In some foods, it's the only thing that makes it possible to extract any nutrition at all.

Plus, besides cooking, there are social aspects, predators who avoid fire, and so on which argue heavily in favor of mastering fire before human society can really develop.

 

[maddman75]

You know, dungeons make a whole lot more sense if you consider creatures with Darkvision. Not only is underground safer and harder to attack, but they can see perfectly well. The chambers would ensure that people stay close enough to see each other. They may even come to hate light, because that is what surfacers bring into their home when they raid.

 

[SWBaxter]

Fire is a prerequisite. We couldn't grow our brains without shrinking our gut (both tissues have enormous metabolic demands). As our brain got relatively larger our gut got relatively shorter. But the only reason we could shrink our gut and still get enough digestion done to maintain proper nutrition was because we had begun cooking many types of food. Cooking breaks up cell walls in plants and connective tissue and assorted hard to digest portions of animals, making the digestion process easier. In some foods, it's the only thing that makes it possible to extract any nutrition at all.

Sure, but most D&D worlds are unabashedly creationist - some deity plopped down the elves here, a rival deity put the orcs there, and other deities gave them fire, technology, etc. so they could get down to killing each other for XP. Often a scientific approach is unnecessary, a given culture can have fire simply because they've got a deity who wants them to cook or forge or kill trolls or whatever.

 

[Jeremy Ackerman-Yost]

Sure, but most D&D worlds are unabashedly creationist - some deity plopped down the elves here, a rival deity put the orcs there, and other deities gave them fire, technology, etc. so they could get down to killing each other for XP. Often a scientific approach is unnecessary, a given culture can have fire simply because they've got a deity who wants them to cook or forge or kill trolls or whatever.

Absolutely. Naturally, my comments need to be taken in context of more or less "real" humans. "Charlemagne environment" put me in a somewhat historical frame of mind, which for me includes evolutionary and anthropological concerns.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

Darkvision:

I'd guess this would have far-reaching consequences if you thought it through (which would be quite a task).

Fire will lose some of its value - though it's still a weapon, a deterrant for predators, a way to cook food, and a way to perceive colour.

Even more than our world today, there would be no fixed cycle of waking and sleep. A lot of work can be done at any hour, at least as far as light is concerned.

The cycle would depend on other circumstances: Hard work would be done when the temperature is right, which means that in hotter regions and in the summer, hard labour is done at night. Work where you need colour perception (mostly arts and stuff) would be done by day. If those things are not of concern, it's mostly a matter of status. If you're good at what you do - or influential and powerful, you get to work the dayshift, where colour's around in droves. If not, you'll get the black-and-white shift.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

Here's another thing: Wings.

The ability to fly would change quite a bit.

 

[Savage Wombat]

Darkvision is sharply limited in distance viewing. No more seeing travellers from a distance. At least your medieval peasants knew that hostiles would be just as blind as they are at night - with darkvision around, the bandits can get within 60' of the village completely unseen.