Creating Items!

['o Skoteinos]

It does cost XP...

Spikey: you're wrong about the Ring of Three Wishes: it does require you to expend the XP each day of the crafting: check http://www.wizards.com/dnd/files/DMGErrata.pdf , page 6. So it has just become impossible to create any of the Tomes and Rings of Three Wishes (and their market prices should be recalculated).

 

[AGGEMAM]

Re: It does cost XP...

Spikey: you're wrong about the Ring of Three Wishes: it does require you to expend the XP each day of the crafting: check http://www.wizards.com/dnd/files/DMGErrata.pdf , page 6. So it has just become impossible to create any of the Tomes and Rings of Three Wishes (and their market prices should be recalculated).

Now I'm being psychic again, but that is what he said. He was been sarcastic, not an unfamiliar trait with Spikey(Freak).

 

[pontus]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Casting spell each day...

Quite right, and that section as well as the combat section of the PHB are the ones in most dire need of a rewrite.

Heh. Yepp, they really are.

My .sig is an obscure reference to a message most people didn't receive, in a game most people have never even heard off.

 

[Cloudgatherer]

Re: It does cost XP...

Spikey: you're wrong about the Ring of Three Wishes: it does require you to expend the XP each day of the crafting: check http://www.wizards.com/dnd/files/DMGErrata.pdf , page 6. So it has just become impossible to create any of the Tomes and Rings of Three Wishes (and their market prices should be recalculated).

Wow. I don't buy that for a second. The XP costs on those types of items are already prohibitively expensive even for 20th level characters. Not to mention the myriad of items that cost 30+ days and require limited wish as a spell (300 * 30 = 9000 XP).

This is one piece of errata I will most definitely not be using IMC.

 

[dcollins]

If you have the Create Wondrous Item Feat and the applicable level requirement, but dont have access to the needed spell, can you have someone else with the spell cast it for you?

Yes: DMG p. 178, under "Prerequisites", paragraph #2-3.

Or could you use it from a scoll???

Yes: DMG p. 178, also under "Prerequisites", paragraph #1, sentence #3-4.

Could you give me a reference?

What you're looking for (preparation and expenditure of each spell each day, without exactly "casting" it) is included in the construction details for each separate type of item, DMG p. 243-246. The fact that scrolls/wands uses up a charge each day is (as above) on DMG p. 178, "Prerequisites", paragraph #1, sentence #3-4.

Spikey: you're wrong about the Ring of Three Wishes: it does require you to expend the XP each day of the crafting: check http://www.wizards.com/dnd/files/DMGErrata.pdf , page 6. So it has just become impossible to create any of the Tomes and Rings of Three Wishes (and their market prices should be recalculated).

This is incorrect. The errata demands the XP expenditure per spell (or charge), not per day -- just like for potions and wands prior to the errata. The example construction of the ring of three wishes (DMG p. 241-242) has not been changed by errata.

 

['o Skoteinos]

This is incorrect. The errata demands the XP expenditure per spell (or charge), not per day -- just like for potions and wands prior to the errata. The example construction of the ring of three wishes (DMG p. 241-242) has not been changed by errata.

Let's see: the errata says you have to pay the XP when you 'cast' the spell. The DMG (page 245, Creating Rings) says you have to cast the spell *each day*. My conclusion would be that you lose 5000XP per day (because you 'cast' Wish every day). I don't know about the crafting example, but I thought the errata was quite clear on this...

BTW: Can you ever finish a Ring of Three Wishes this way? Say you use one Wish, then the price is 25k (5x5000), but you have to craft 13 days, so suddenly the price goes up to (13x5x5000). Now you have to craft many more days to complete it, each day casting Wish, each day raising the market value of your ring...

 

[dcollins]

Let's see: the errata says you have to pay the XP when you 'cast' the spell.

It does not say that. The exact quote from DMG errata p. 6 is as follows:

If spells are involved in the prerequisites for making the armor, the creator must have prepared the spells to be cast (or must know the spells, in the case of a sorcerer or bard), and must provide any material components or focuses the spells require, and must pay any XP costs required for the spells.

"Preparation" occurs each day. Actual "casting" does not. It does not say that material components are spent each day.

 

['o Skoteinos]

dcollins: it does indeed say that in the the errata, but the DMG continues with:

DMG, page 245, Creating Rings
The act of working on the ring triggers the the prepared spells, making them unavailable for casting during each day of the ring's creation (That is, those spell slots are expended from his currently prepared spells, just as if they had been cast.)

Summarized: if an item has a spell involved in the prerequisites, you must have it prepared and provide all the components (F, M, XP).

My interpretation:
Each day, you must "cast" this spell (the spell slot is emtied, as though it has been cast), and you lose the M and XP components, just as though you've cast the spell.

dcollins: if you don't use the components each day, how many times do you use them (3 times for a Ring of Three Wishes?, then why not 7 times for a Doomwarding enchantment from MoF?)? I think that, as written, you have to use the components each day of crafting...of course, I'm very willing to be convinced otherwise, because I think these rules suck...

 

[dcollins]

Last time: look at potions, scrolls, staffs, and wands (DMG p. 244-246), which required no errata, and whose language matches the errata'd language for other item types. Scrolls have always required material component (and XP) expenditure, "triggers the prepared spell" each day of writing, but require expenditure only once, not per day of scribing. This is proven by the expenses of scrolls on DMG p. 200-203, which include increases only for one application of components per spell (example: clone, sympathy, wish, etc.)

It's further proven in that the example construction of the ring of three wishes on DMG p. 242 was not errata'd; the errata for "rings" merely brings the language into compliance with this example, which explicitly says, yes, 3 applications of wish components for a total of 15,000 XP. One per charge, exactly like the unchanged rules for staffs and wands which match the errata'd language for other items.

Items from MOF are not part of the core rules, are not in a book that I own, and are not really my concern.

 

[DrSpunj]

Yeah, I have to agree with dcollins

Especially since he was one of a couple people who helped me through this same question on the old boards. I wish they were up so everyone could glance back over there (the thread is less than a week old and titled something like "MI Creation and a Ring of Three Wishes").

I was trying to do the math for that Ring and several other magic items and stumbling over the errata'd passage. As many have previously stated, the example is pretty straightforward about the process and cost as long as you use the "Single use, use-activated" line from Table 8-10 on pg. 242.

As Spikey said above, if you interpret things to mean every spell must actually be *cast* every day, actually spending all material components and XP costs, then certain items (like the Ring of Three Wishes) would essentially never be made by mortals. While most people would probably agree 20th level casters are fairly rare, they certainly should be able to make a Ring that casts Wish three times without casting and paying the XP cost for the spell (23*3=) 69 times.

Thanks.