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Creation of holy water... thoughts?

lordxaviar

Explorer
MAGICAL RESEARCH: CREATION OF HOLY/UNHOLY WATER (DM1 p 114-5):

Only clerics, excluding druids, are able to prepare holy water - or unholy water in the case of evil clerics. As a third level spell is involved, it requires a cleric of not less than 5th level of experience to manage to create such fluid. The process is as follows: A specially blessed/cursed basin of fine workmanship and precious metal (copper, silver, electrum, gold, or platinum) must be fashioned for the cleric. This vessel must be engraved with the holy/unholy symbols of the cleric's deity or deities, and it must be within a special repository of finely crafted and carefully worked rare wood, with a base, pedestal, chest-like holder and lid - the whole being known as a font. The basin is placed within the font, and the cleric then casts the following spells in succession, while robed in formal vestments appropriate to his or her religious persuasion:

Spell ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,New spell ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, Old,Lv ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,New Lv

Create water ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,1 ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,0
Purify food & drink ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, 1,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, 0
(the water) or its reverse
Bless or its reverse ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, 1,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, 1
Chant (1 full turn) ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, Consecrate ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,2 ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,2
Prayer ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, 3 ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,3


The amount of water created depends upon the metal of the receptacle, and this is shown hereafter, along with suggested costs for the various parts of the font. Once created, the holy/unholy water cannot leave the font far more than a Hour without losing its effectiveness unless it is placed within specially blessed/cursed vials of crystal. Each empty vial is worth 2-5 gold pieces.

Holy/Unholy Water Receptacles:

Metal ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Capacity For Creation (# Vials) ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Minimum-Maximum Basin Cost (gp)
Copper,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, 6 ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,130- 180
Silver ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, 10 ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,1,900 – 2,400
electrum,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, 18 ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, 8,000- 12,000
gold ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,32 ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,19,000-22,000
platinum ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,50 ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,110,000 – 200,000

Font Cost (GP)
200
500
1000
1500
2000

You may allow combination metal vessels with capacity according to the composition, found by interpolation of the above capacity figures, i.e., a copper basin chased with silver and set with silver rim ond handles would hold 8 vials and cost 50% of the copper vessel plus 50% of the silver vessel price. Fonts and basins must be designed and constructed on special order, the process taking 4-10 (2d4 + 2) weeks. Capacities' are designed far game purposes so as to limit supplies of holy/unholy water. They can be justified by the rationale that the deities find more precious metals more pleasing than those of less worth, so they are prone to grant more favor upon such offering vessels.

Limit Of Creation: Holy water or unholy water may be made but once per week. The ritual takes a full day of prayers and meditation, followed by the actual ritual, followed by a need for not less than 8 hours of rest and repose. Only one holy/unholy water font per religious edifice is possible, as deities look upon anything other as unworthy and excessive.
Defilement Of Fonts: If any non-believer blesses/curses an unholy/holy font, or uses less refined means such as excreting wastes into a font or basin, the whale is absolutely desecrated, defiled, and unfit. It must be smelted down and remade completely. The cost will be 20% to 50% of the normal figures shown above, and the process will take from 4 to 6 weeks. Note that either method of defilement requires actual contact with the font and its vessel. Any blessing or cursing from a distance will be absolutely ineffectual and wasted. Relics might either defile by touch or prevent defilement by being encased within the font or receptacle, at your option.
Note Regarding The Drinking Of Holy Water: Ingesting or bathing with holy water will have the beneficial effect of slowing the onset of lycanthropy or of becoming undead. For each vial so used, the process is slowed by from 1-4 turns. This time delay is to be is secretly determined and noted.
 
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That's from the 1E DMG, right ? I like it, though it's convoluted as is typical for 1E/2E.

I recall seeing somewhere (of course i cant find it now) about needing 50 gp of ground silver for use to create it. which makes it cost more to make then they are selling it for.
 

1E had a very large upfront cost and a mid-level spell casting requirement.

3E has a low-level spell and 25 gp of silver as a material component, but no upfront cost. Holy water is sold at a cost that pays for the material component and doesn't charge for the spellcasting service.
 

that was it... yes 25gp or 250 sp... with no charge for grinding or for the vial (flask) typical of the misthinking of the new tsr/hasbro...

(Actually it was always pretty bad.... my fav. is still.. that a flask of oil weighs 1 pound and a empty flask weighs 1.5 pounds.. that s a neat trick... I have it at 2 pounds full and 1 pound empty...based on a hand blown beer bottle.

this is the only reason i am glad they stopped supporting 3.5...cause now we can fix it... and they can just sux wind.
 

that was it... yes 25gp or 250 sp... with no charge for grinding or for the vial (flask) typical of the misthinking of the new tsr/hasbro...

Your "misthinking" is my "not worrying so much about fiddly bit details that don't really impact the lives of the PCs".
 

Doesn't impact the lives of the PCs?! You may think that now, but when your PCs are in need of a cleric and discover all the temples are closed because they lost money making holy water, then you will realize just how much it impacts them.
 

Maybe holy water is a loss-leader for them...

Remove Curse/Regeneration/Raise Dead/etc. is where they make their money... :)
 

Maybe holy water is a loss-leader for them...

Remove Curse/Regeneration/Raise Dead/etc. is where they make their money... :)

Nah those are flash-cash items, but they don't sell enough.

The big money is in Cure Light Wounds, and Remove Disease.
 

big money???

For the organisation? Absolutely.

100% of the reps can apply CLW and other first level spells. Those are also the spells affordable by the middle class or better with some regularity which allows for some repeat business.

Remove Disease is slightly different. Fewer of the reps can apply it, but it starts becoming more expensive and it applies in a relatively common situation (any disease). It also has few mundane competitors. The middle class and better can afford the occasional use and the consequences of not receiving it are scary enough that a large percentage will wipe out their savings for it.

Higher level spells start becoming priced out of the basic market so that only the upper class and better can afford them. Additionally, the percentage of reps that can apply them falls off precipitously. Flashy and great advertising, but not a cash flow you can rely on.
 

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