Creative Game Advice

[Mistwell]

Lots of creative folks around here. I could use some advice on some NPC relations. This is a D&D Next game, but it's such generalized advice it could easily apply to any version of D&D or other dungeon-based fantasy game.

I was up at 4am this morning with the toddler, so my brain is a bit fried at the moment and I have a game tonight I am DM'ing (though the PCs may not get as far as this Current Situation, in tonight's session, so don't let that time frame deter any later advice). Perhaps others can use this thread for advice on their game too, as an ongoing thing (maybe not).

BACKGROUND:

The dungeon is a sort of living malevolent spirit. It trapped the "residents" there through manipulation (the dungeon speaks to them, with a magical face appearing on doors and walls sometimes). It tricked most of the denizens into agreeing to becoming "residents", and now most are simply trying to escape. Residents have some privileges (like doors automatically open for them, while non-residents must get lucky in their attempts to try and bash a door open, and access to some food and water and healing sources).

There are two factions on Dungeon Level 2, both tricked into becoming residents. One is the Bullywugs, and the other is the Kobolds. They don't like each other, each having been manipulated by the malevolent dungeon spirit into wanting to attack the other. The Bullywugs claim the Kobolds tried to eat their pet (a giant crab), while the Kobolds claim the crab is necessary for a ritual to allow them to escape the dungeon. They've been raiding each other ever since.

The Kobolds have some dark ritual warlock types. Those warlocks used a ritual to create some shadowy kobolds that fly. So between the shadows, the warlocks, and the warriors, you essentially have three types of Kobolds within that clan. Bullywugs had a similar setup (without the shadowy types).

The PCs have allied themselves with the Bullywugs, helping them obtain an ingredient that the Bullywugs think will allow them to cast a ritual spell that will allow them to escape the dungeon. The PCs have not encountered the Kobolds yet, though they know of them from their discussions with the Bullywugs.

CURRENT SITUATION:

The PCs are on Level 1, above the Level 2 discussed in the background, where they've fought through some Striges, a Harpy clan, a mysterious flying demon-type (who went down so quick they couldn't find out what he was and what he was doing there, beyond a small golden trident he left behind), and some giant spiders.

The PCs stumble on a meeting between the Kobolds, and another of those mysterious flying demon-types (not too far from another exit from the dungeons, though as residents they are magically prevented from leaving the dungeon). The Kobolds are represented by each of their different types: a warrior, a warlock, and a flying shadow. They're negotiating with the demon about something.

IDEAS/ADVICE:

1. What are the Kobolds and the Demon negotiating about, and why did the Kobolds come to this place?

2. How did the Kobolds get past the Stirges, Harpies, and Giant Spiders, in order to get to this point?

3. If the PCs try to negotiate with the Kobolds, what could the Kobolds and/or the Demon want of them?

4. What is the Demon, it's relationship to the dungeon, and what is the mysterious small golden trident they carry, if anything?

Thanks guys, much appreciated!

 

[Mistwell]

Well this was an interesting experiment. I posted this at three boards. The one with the largest active user based was this one. Then there was a smaller user based one, and a small user base.

And my responses were in exact inverse to the size of the board. The board with the smallest user base gave the most advice, the one with the middle user base gave fewer responses, and this one has the largest active user base and gave zero advice.

I wonder if that is a factor of my putting this under the "Any D&D" label? Has the player base balkanized so much that people only click on the edition of their choice when browsing this forum, and mostly ignore the "Any D&D" label?

If so, perhaps "Any D&D" should show up if you click any of the focused categories based on a particular edition? Surely it cannot be a good thing for the community if fans of various editions don't talk to each other about the game in general terms anymore?

 

[Viking Bastard]

I think it has more to do with ENW's user base just having become somewhat jaded.

 

[LostSoul]

1. What are the Kobolds and the Demon negotiating about, and why did the Kobolds come to this place?

2. How did the Kobolds get past the Stirges, Harpies, and Giant Spiders, in order to get to this point?

3. If the PCs try to negotiate with the Kobolds, what could the Kobolds and/or the Demon want of them?

4. What is the Demon, it's relationship to the dungeon, and what is the mysterious small golden trident they carry, if anything?

Sounds like you already have your advice so I'll keep it short & simple.

1. The souls of the bullywugs. The demon doesn't really want these, though it'll take 'em. It wants the dungeon itself. It doesn't know why, but its master does.

2. Secret doors. Which could be nice for the players - the doors will allow them access to "behind enemy lines".

3. The kobolds want to get out. The demon wants the dungeon for its master.

I think it might be neat if the kobolds & the bullywugs need the other to get out. The dungeon wants to pit them against each other, so: When the PCs talk with one group about getting out, the dungeon lets the other group see/hear the negotiation (a whispering wind, maybe?).

The dungeon may be lying about how to get out.

4. The demon is a messenger demon for a more powerful entity. Its master wants the dungeon because it's a powerful sentient creature that extends through the multi-dimensional space of the planes. It can twist and warp this dungeon to allow for a small incursion of Eeevil.

The trident is what allows the demon to return/speak with its master. PCs can use this, too, though that might require some research.

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

I think part of your problem was the thread title; it wasn't sufficiently "grabby" to catch my attention among the other threads at initial glance. I don't personally use the category labels to sort threads.

Thoughts:

1. What are the Kobolds and the Demon negotiating about, and why did the Kobolds come to this place?

The Kobolds originally ran the entire dungeon as servants to the Dragon who owned the place, but were forced into the second level by the incursion of Harpies that occurred after a band of adventurers slew the Dragon (and the Dragon's soul is now the "spirit" of the dungeon). They want to drive away the Bullywugs and Harpies to restore their proper place as masters, and are negotiating with the Demon to accomplish that -- the Demon claims he can bring another Dragon to aid them.

2. How did the Kobolds get past the Stirges, Harpies, and Giant Spiders, in order to get to this point?

The Kobolds were there first.

3. If the PCs try to negotiate with the Kobolds, what could the Kobolds and/or the Demon want of them?

The Kobolds will be suspicious of the adventurers, and will ask for a demonstration of trust first by eliminating the Harpies on level 1. After that they'll try and use the PCs against the Bullywugs. The Demon wants to breed demonic half-dragon kobolds and would be happy to expand his influence beyond the Kobold tribe by becoming a "patron" who could corrupt the PCs.

4. What is the Demon, it's relationship to the dungeon, and what is the mysterious small golden trident they carry, if anything?

See #3; the Demons are in fact draconic cambion offspring of the dragon who used to inhabit the dungeon. They seek to reestablish an empire by gaining control over and corrupting the kobold tribe, then expand its influence beyond. It's not wedded to the Kobolds, though -- it will happily switch its favor to a more powerful ally that achieves its end. The trident is a random bit of treasure that can be traced to the adventuring party that originally slew the dragon -- the holy symbol of the party's cleric that was lost when the cleric died fighting the dragon.

 

[LostSoul]

Well this was an interesting experiment. I posted this at three boards. The one with the largest active user based was this one. Then there was a smaller user based one, and a small user base.

And my responses were in exact inverse to the size of the board. The board with the smallest user base gave the most advice, the one with the middle user base gave fewer responses, and this one has the largest active user base and gave zero advice.

I wonder if that is a factor of my putting this under the "Any D&D" label? Has the player base balkanized so much that people only click on the edition of their choice when browsing this forum, and mostly ignore the "Any D&D" label?

If so, perhaps "Any D&D" should show up if you click any of the focused categories based on a particular edition? Surely it cannot be a good thing for the community if fans of various editions don't talk to each other about the game in general terms anymore?

EN World has never been big on providing adventure help like this - unless you're PirateCat or someone like that. (I seem to recall making a post like this 10+ years ago.) Just board culture, I guess.

 

[Viking Bastard]

It used to be a bit more active in this regard, although ENW has always been more mechanical and theory-bent. There also used to be a bigger culture of people sharing stories about their games, in general.

It just kinda dwindled over time; moved more into the Story Hours and such; endless repeat of subjects saw diminished replies, etc.

 

[Viking Bastard]

As for the thread topic itself!

1. The kobolds just needed a place to call their own and were (like many) seduced by the dungeon's siren calls. They actually quite like the dungeon, and although they'd like to be able to leave, they are more bothered about the dungeon's other denizens than they're about their entrapment. They want the dungeon all for themselves. The demon wants the kobolds' help to break the dungeon's enchantment and release the spirit (see #4), promising to leave them the dungeon husk once that's over.
2. They're kobolds! Nobody knows how to get around the dungeon like the kobolds. Many kobolds gave their lives in the kobolds' quest for mastery of the tunnels.
3. The kobolds want to get rid of both the competition and the dungeon's spirit (see #1). The demon knows protagonists when he sees some, and is more than happy to throw the kobolds under the bus if it means recruiting some grade-A adventurers for his goals.
4. The demon wants the dungeon's soul, which is owed to his master. In fact, the dungeon is actually a enormous phylactery, designed by the dungeon's creator to escape his contract with the demon's lord. This is why the dungeon seduces and traps creatures: For protection against the agents of the demon lord (as well as wandering adventurers).

No ideas for the trident.

 

[Mistwell]

Thanks guys, this has been helpful. I will provide more feedback later once I digest some of these ideas.

 

[Viking Bastard]

Thanks guys, this has been helpful.

Where else did you post this? I'm interested in reading other people's suggestions (as well as just scoping out the other forums).