Creatures By Poll - Monster #1 Discussion

[BOZ]

OK, with the results of those last two polls, we can now really get things rolling. Given those results, we can make some assumptions/logical guesses. Since the creature’s toughness was seen as critically important overall by most of you, it will need a high Con and natural armor, and maybe some damage reduction and/or fast healing/regeneration? Trailing behind, mobility was also given a few votes, so it should be at least a little fast, maybe with a decent Dex and maybe a swim speed as well? Physical power was right behind, so we’re probably going to give it a just-above-average Strength. The single vote for intellect suggested that the majority of you don’t think this thing should be too bright.
So, given all that, I’m going to suggest some possible statistics:

Hit Dice: 6d10+30 (63 hp)
Initiative: +2 (Dex)
Speed: 20 ft
AC: 20 (+2 Dex, +8 natural)
Saves: Fort +10, Ref +7, Will +1
Abilities: Str 13, Dex 15, Con 20, Int 7, Wis 10, Cha 6

Your opinions on these?

Some thought needs to be given to this creature’s natural attacks. It has six heads, therefore I’m sure it will have six bite attacks as well. What about the tentacles, should they attack as well? Any other natural attacks? What should be the damage values for these attacks?

As for the other poll, that also generated some good ideas. A lot of you wanted to see Improved Grab/Constrict, as well as Poison, so those are definitely going to be in there. How are these abilities going to work? Should the grab be from the tentacles, to work with the constriction? Would a Swallow Whole work better with a bite-oriented Improved Grab? Should that be more or less damage than the other attacks?
How about the poison, there were a few different suggestions for that.
- Mr. Greathouse suggested a contact poison secreted from the skin and mouth (1d8 Dex initial / 1d6 Wis secondary). This would be applied to just about all attacks, grapples, and unarmed strikes it makes, as well as those made against it. That’s pretty powerful.
- Ferret suggested a spitting poison, that causes 2d6 dexterity/ Blindness. Of course then, he later suggested that it cause paralysis, so that “flyey” and “swimyy” things would be immobilized.
- Knight Otu suggested a poison that causes either Con or Dex damage.
What sounds the best for what this creature will need?

So, with a definite Improved Grab and poison combo, should we give it something else? A few more suggestions.
- Breath weapon also got a few votes. Pale suggested an acid breath, with accompanying acid immunity. Spitting acid would be OK, but then we can’t give it a spitting poison as well.
- Spell-Like Abilities would also be nice for this creature, but not absolutely necessary. Krishnath suggested a few powers, giving it some defensive capabilities to make up for its lack of mobility. Camouflage, preferrebly at will, also - Spider Climb, Darkness, Faerie Fire, Suggestion and Blindness/Deafness.

As far as some special qualities, I think it needs Blindsight, and Krish suggested Amphibious, and Ferret suggested an Immunity to Cold.

OK, discuss. As this week goes on, we will move on to more things.

 

[Knight Otu]

I feel that the Int may be a bit too high, maybe 4 or 5?

For natural attacks, I tend to think that 6 bites might be enough, but a tentacle attack for Imp Grab and Constrict would be nice, too.

As for the poison, I would suggest bite, with Dexterity damage for the primary damage, paralysis as secondary damage. Maybe 1d8/Paralysis?

Spitting acid/acid immunity would be fitting, too.

I'm not too sure about spell-like abilities. Camouflage and Spider Climb at mosst, I think. Personally, I'd prefer those as racially skill boni.

Blindsight is a must, and Amphibious should also be added. Cold Immunity is nice, but I don't think it is neccessary.

Of course, all of the above is imho.

Edit: Almost forgot - It's speed does also seem a little high, maybe we can go with 15 or 10 feet?

 

[Ferret]

Well I wanted someting to effect the movement, as a flying or swiming creature would trounce it as the could move quite well.

 

[BOZ]

Of course, all of the above is imho.

that's what i'm lookin for! the humbler, the better.

 

[Krishnath]

A couple of cent's worth...

1. It should have both bite and tentacle attacks, but not at the same time, rather it should use either 6 bites, or 6 tentalces,

2. Int should not be to high, it's a predator, not a genious, 5 is sufficient and on par with another top predator, the Griffon.

3. Posion would be best if it was Dex first, paralysis second, it is the most local form of poison for a top predator such as this, with low mobility. The best way to administer the poison is with the tentacles, which of course should have twwice the reach of it's mouthes

4. the land speed should be low, perhaps even as low as 5', but on the other hand, it should have high swim speed, 40' should do.

5. Damage reduction and high natural armor. a damage reduction of 15/+1 and a natural armor bonus of at least +8 would be nice

6. Drop the acid spitting, it just doesn't make sense...

7. spell-like abilities are almost a must since it is a magical beast. At minimum it should have camouflage and spider climb. Otherwise, you know what i've suggested

8. Definetly both blindsight and amphibious. This monster should be able to hunt both above and below water.

9. It should use improved grab to administer the poison, think about it, it's grappling you, and each round you get another dose of poison, sooner or later even a creature with Fort +20 will fail a save against the poison, and the creature can then swallow the immobile creature

10. It should definetly be able to advance to at least gargantuan size...

Just my, hmm, 10 cents

 

[Knight Otu]

A couple of cent's worth...

1. It should have both bite and tentacle attacks, but not at the same time, rather it should use either 6 bites, or 6 tentalces,

Agreed.

2. Int should not be to high, it's a predator, not a genious, 5 is sufficient and on par with another top predator, the Griffon.

Agreed, again. (Was it the Griffon's Int that was errata'd or was it the Hippogriff's, by the way?)

3. Posion would be best if it was Dex first, paralysis second, it is the most local form of poison for a top predator such as this, with low mobility. The best way to administer the poison is with the tentacles, which of course should have twwice the reach of it's mouthes

The kind of poison I agree with, but I'm not so sure about the tentacles. I'd rather use it with the bite attacks.

4. the land speed should be low, perhaps even as low as 5', but on the other hand, it should have high swim speed, 40' should do.

Low land speed, certainly. Swim speed? Certainly doesn't hurt.

5. Damage reduction and high natural armor. a damage reduction of 15/+1 and a natural armor bonus of at least +8 would be nice

Damage reduction fits well with the toughness theme. And it already has a +8 natural armor.

6. Drop the acid spitting, it just doesn't make sense...

It would make a good ranged weapon, what this creature otherwise lacks. Of course, it could also spit it's poison.

7. spell-like abilities are almost a must since it is a magical beast. At minimum it should have camouflage and spider climb. Otherwise, you know what i've suggested

As said above, I'd rather see the two as skill boni. Spell-likes are not necessary, we already have an Int above 2 and possibly DR, which qualifies it as a Magical Beast.

8. Definetly both blindsight and amphibious. This monster should be able to hunt both above and below water.

Agreed.

9. It should use improved grab to administer the poison, think about it, it's grappling you, and each round you get another dose of poison, sooner or later even a creature with Fort +20 will fail a save against the poison, and the creature can then swallow the immobile creature

Not too sure about that one.

10. It should definetly be able to advance to at least gargantuan size...

You're making me feel small -

 

[Tonguez]

A couple of cent's worth...

3. Posion would be best if it was Dex first, paralysis second, it is the most local form of poison for a top predator such as this, with low mobility. The best way to administer the poison is with the tentacles, which of course should have twwice the reach of it's mouthes

9. It should use improved grab to administer the poison, think about it, it's grappling you, and each round you get another dose of poison, sooner or later even a creature with Fort +20 will fail a save against the poison, and the creature can then swallow the immobile creature ]

Excellent idea - I'd envisaged its victims being grabbed and constricted by long groping tentacles having the victims struggles cause ongoing paralysis is just so diabolical its great!

So yep - Improved Grab, Constrict and Poison

4. the land speed should be low, perhaps even as low as 5', but on the other hand, it should have high swim speed, 40' should do.]

Oh I'd thought of it more of a Giant shellfish - barnacle type thingy, so a 40 swimm speed seems high - I'd be more comfortable with 20. Perhaps we could give juveniles of the species a 40 swim speed however they eventually fix themselves and secrete a thick armour shell. They can move again if absolutely required but disolving the shell takes time and then the swiming is slow.

5. Damage reduction and high natural armor. a damage reduction of 15/+1 and a natural armor bonus of at least +8 would be nice ]

See above comment on its secretion of a shell material to create a natural armour +8 sounds good.
Should we give it a weakness? Say something like electricity

7. spell-like abilities are almost a must since it is a magical beast. At minimum it should have camouflage and spider climb. Otherwise, you know what i've suggested ]

These are both MUST HAVES although Camouflage could be a +10 bonus to Hide! I'd also add Cause Fear or maybe Frightful appearance, sculpt sound and Control Water

8. Definetly both blindsight and amphibious. This monster should be able to hunt both above and below water.]

As an addition could we give it a Tremorsense ability whilst its tentacles are in the water (ie it feels for water movements)

10. It should definetly be able to advance to at least gargantuan size... ]

Yeah

Just some other ideas for Scylla-oops the monster

 

[BOZ]

i'm going to print this thread out and bring it with me to gencon (if'n i don't forget, lol).

 

[BOZ]

OK, so after printing out this thread and taking it along with me to gencon (hey, I did remember!) to read on the train, I thought about what you guys said, and this is what I have on this creature at the moment:

Medium-Size Magical Beast
Hit Dice: 6d10+30 (63 hp)
Initiative: +2 (Dex)
Speed: 15 ft, swim 30 ft
AC: 20 (+2 Dex, +8 natural)
Attacks: 6 bites +7 melee; or 6 tentacles +7 melee
Special Attacks: Improved grab, constrict, poison (1d8 Dex/paralysis), acid spit, spell-like abilities
Special Qualities: Blindsight, amphibious, tremorsense, damage reduction 15/+1, immune to cold
Saves: Fort +10, Ref +7, Will +0
Abilities: Str 13, Dex 15, Con 20, Int 5, Wis 8, Cha 6
Skills: 13
Feats: 1

I lowered the Int, and took the Wisdom down with it accordingly. I also lowered the speed a bit and gave it a swim speed. I threw tremorsense and immunity to cold on there, let me know if you think we need them.
Look at its special attacks and qualities; this creature strikes me as a bit overpowered for 6 HD, especially given the fact that it can make 6 poisonous attacks per round – this will all add up to a very high CR. So, I’m thinking that maybe out of damage reduction, spell-like abilities, and acid spit, we really only need two out of the three. What do you guys think? Also, if we go with poisoned tentacles do we really still need the constriction attack? And what should the reach be with tentacles, 10 feet? What are the damage values for its attacks? What do you think about a weakness, such as vulnerability to electricity? I’ve seen fear/frightful presence mentioned again, but I think I can only realistically add that at the expense of removing another attack.
Also, I threw the feats and skill points up there, suggestions on those?

 

[Krishnath]

Warning mini-rant!!!!

I've said it before, and I'll say it again, the acid spit is pointless and does not fit. Out of all the aquatic creatures on this planet we call earth, only one has a spit attack (the archer fish, who lives by shooting bugs of overhanging branches in mangrove swamps.). The acid spit is completely and utterly stupid for an aquatic (or semi-aquatic) creature, mostly because it would become so diluted even after five feet through water that it would deal no damage!