Critical Hits D&D XP Coverage- the seminar

[kennew142]

As funny as it sounds, I love the fact that templates are in the DMG because I can have two books open while making monsters instead of flipping back and forth; it's the little things in life I enjoy most.

It doesn't sound funny to me. I hate flipping back and forth in one book while trying to stat out an opponent.

 

[Incenjucar]

It doesn't sound funny to me. I hate flipping back and forth in one book while trying to stat out an opponent.

Multi-Screen DMing. <3

 

[Teemu]

Q: Contradictory- bring a lot of books, versus only a few?

A: Happy medium between them. Arcane Power in 2009. Players who aren’t playing Arcane characters won’t need it. Trying to cut down from books of 3e. Also trying to get away from long lists of feats in every book. Still going to be some mechanical options in every book, but definitely trying to keep it down.

Kinda surprising.

 

[Ahglock]

But you get a save every round. Not only that, but it is a Wizard once per day ability.

I believe it's fine as is.

I never had a problem with save or dies in earlier editions though 3e was the worst of the editions since it was easy to target a poor save and boost your DCs. Thing is this is deciding a fight by basically a die roll, well technically two. First the roll to see if you hit then the save roll, then the party capitalizes and the target is dead. So how is this really get rid of the big evil save or dies that everyone seemed so happy about. I wasn't happy about getting rid of save or dies so this looks somewhat promising to me.


It was never a problem in my games but doesn't this just cause the 5 minute work day for those who did it in 3e. I got sleep as my big gun, a nice save or die, with a bit of coordination, you just drop the baddie for good. Why don't you stop for the end of the day right there?

Heck I see this as being more 5 minute work day prone, you have explicit big gun powers that are limited per day. Before everything was per day, and you might just unload the top down in spell level. But in most fights that didn't mean all your good spells. Heck at many levels since you haven't capped the damage dies yet, a lower level spell was almost as good.

 

[neceros]

So far, fourth edition is all about teams. Yes, there will be heroic solo monsters and epic monsters, but they will be tough. Remember how that pit fiend had a +2 to saving throws? That's what they are talking about, and he's only half of a solo monster! Plus, he had a bunch of baddies with him.

The difference between save or die and sleep is how quickly it takes effect. The first round you know you're falling asleep. If you fail that save, you fall asleep. Next round you make another save until you wake up. This continues until you make the save. You have a 55% chance to succeed. Everything has a risk factor, but 4e has much, much less instant fails. I'm not sure why you like save or dies, honestly.

Lastly, most encounters, if properly designed, will not be alone. They will contain many, many monsters. Thus, if you sleep one or two: Great work! Either deal with them now, or move onto more pressing matters. But I guarantee you -- a properly made encounter will not let one wizard slay the entire band. Now, if you use sleep on a big bad, then more bonus for using tactics.

 

[Ahglock]

So far, fourth edition is all about teams. Yes, there will be heroic solo monsters and epic monsters, but they will be tough. Remember how that pit fiend had a +2 to saving throws? That's what they are talking about, and he's only half of a solo monster! Plus, he had a bunch of baddies with him.

The difference between save or die and sleep is how quickly it takes effect. The first round you know you're falling asleep. If you fail that save, you fall asleep. Next round you make another save until you wake up. This continues until you make the save. You have a 55% chance to succeed. Everything has a risk factor, but 4e has much, much less instant fails. I'm not sure why you like save or dies, honestly.

Lastly, most encounters, if properly designed, will not be alone. They will contain many, many monsters. Thus, if you sleep one or two: Great work! Either deal with them now, or move onto more pressing matters. But I guarantee you -- a properly made encounter will not let one wizard slay the entire band. Now, if you use sleep on a big bad, then more bonus for using tactics.

Well it is a 2 square burst effect and hits all targets in that area, even if you are fighting a mob this spell will likely rock people. Fight 8 goblins and 3 drop, the fight was massively turned, so why not stop for the day?

Sorry if I am coming across as argumentative, but I don't see how this would help the 5 minute work day. And maybe a 1 round delay and it still feels like save or die to me. I didn't have a problem with either so maybe I don't understand the core complaints about save or die or the 5 minute work day.

So I guess for me the question is if your party did the 5 minute work day thing, do you think 4e will break of this habit and why?

If you don't like save or die effects why do two roles instead of one make it OK?

 

[Fallen Seraph]

While your right it probably won't break some groups, it may break others since there is added incentive with action points, still having other per-day, as well as your per-encounter and at-will powers.

This will also enable DMs to create dungeons that have some sort of aggressive feature to speed the party along, so say it is flooding, or must stop a ritual, etc. In 3e, this was harder too do without leaving the party by the end almost dead and powerless.

I also think with the Sleep Power it will be less, "okay their asleep" and more along the lines of, "okay two of them are asleep, jump them!" The fighter and rogue leap into action to kill the sleeping opponents before they wake. Since really they could very well wake next round.

Which is the benefit of the extra-rolls it adds some more spice and unpredictability while also giving the opponent some extra chance to get back in the game sooner.

 

[neceros]

Well it is a 2 square burst effect and hits all targets in that area, even if you are fighting a mob this spell will likely rock people. Fight 8 goblins and 3 drop, the fight was massively turned, so why not stop for the day?

Sorry if I am coming across as argumentative, but I don't see how this would help the 5 minute work day. And maybe a 1 round delay and it still feels like save or die to me. I didn't have a problem with either so maybe I don't understand the core complaints about save or die or the 5 minute work day.

So I guess for me the question is if your party did the 5 minute work day thing, do you think 4e will break of this habit and why?

If you don't like save or die effects why do two roles instead of one make it OK?

By all means, argue until you're giddy. It's what we're here for.

I don't quite know for certain why I like 4e sleep versus save or die. Perhaps I have a feeling of control as I make a save every round to 'wake up.' Whatever the case, the reason that it doesn't stop the session there is because there is more session to be had. At this point it would be up to the DM to ensure that the story doesn't get stale because the wizard used her ability breaker.

In reality, that's exactly what a wizard is supposed to do, mechanically and fundamentally. They were the ones who hurt things a lot, then just take a backseat and recharge their gears. That's not to mean they stop functioning, just that they need a quick rest before they cane wreak unconditional havoc again.

In 3ed saves scaled horribly with power. To make a save in 4e it is normally a 55% chance to succeed. Almost a flip of the coin. That's reasonable to me. Plus, you get more chances as time goes on. In the rules of law, you're bound to win eventually.

I don't have a definite answer to why I like it more, but I do.

 

[davethegame]

Some more updates

Some more stuff for everyone to sink their teeth into:

Random Crunchy Bits that I don't think have been listed elsewhere:
http://www.critical-hits.com/2008/03/01/dd-xp-random-crunchy-bits/

Tiefling pages from PHB:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/davethegame/2303338028/in/photostream/

Gnoll Monster Manual Entries:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/davethegame/2303336730/in/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/davethegame/2303337234/in/photostream/

I'll leave it to others to try to transcribe them!

 

[Knight Otu]

Okay, so we get our first occurance of a chaotic alignment. That axis seems to be much rarer than the good-evil axis in 4E.

Observation - I suspect the second 25 in the lore is a typo and should be 30?