Critical Role Critical Role Campaign 4 Episode 4 is a High-Octane Rollercoaster

[TiQuinn]

I did think there was going to be a TPK setting up a seeker's table in the realm of the dead for a bit there.

That was what I was thinking too. That

Spoiler

Circle of Death

was set up to take them out or at least make them short work for the shadows and ghouls.

 

[TiQuinn]

I dunno…are we doing spoilers on this thread?

 

[Charlaquin]

I dunno…are we doing spoilers on this thread?

I think for now we probably should, as I know people often watch the episodes over multiple sittings. At least wait until Monday when the vod is out to post untagged spoilers, so people who could only watch part of it live don’t have the rest spoiled before they have a chance to finish the episode.

 

[Charlaquin]

If anyone needs to see what it looks like when a party refuses to run despite overwhelming odds, they should look no further. To me it read as an encounter with clear secondary goals that happened to be during a fight...and so, of course, the players decided to ignore the secondary goals and just fight...and fight...and fight...and fight. It was a 2-2 1/2 hour fight. Four 3rd-level PCs. If anyone questions just how robust 5E PCs are, they should look no further. It was nuts.

I think you’re absolutely right. This was clearly meant to be a challenge to get Arnessa and Octis and get out, not a fight to the death. But, the Critical Role cast isn’t exactly used to fights they can’t win, and the fact that Octis died on the first round obfuscated the secondary goal. And, Matt was more interested in roleplaying his character’s grief than achieving the party’s goals. Which I say as an observation, not a critique. But, like, at the end of the fight he should have used his hasted speed to grapple Vaelus and dash across the bridge, but he chose to stand in the way of the shadows and waste one of his two actions Readying an attack, and the two of them just spent a round uselessly attacking shadows while Brennan was telegraphing as hard as he could that it was a lost cause.

 

[TiQuinn]

I think you’re absolutely right. This was clearly meant to be a challenge to get Arnessa and Octis and get out, not a fight to the death. But, the Critical Role cast isn’t exactly used to fights they can’t win, and the fact that Octis died on the first round obfuscated the secondary goal. And, Matt was more interested in roleplaying his character’s grief than achieving the party’s goals. Which I say as an observation, not a critique. But, like, at the end of the fight he should have used his hasted speed to grapple Vaelus and dash across the bridge, but he chose to stand in the way of the shadows and waste one of his two actions Readying an attack, and the two of them just spent a round uselessly attacking shadows while Brennan was telegraphing as hard as he could that it was a lost cause.

My thing with Occtis is that was a pretty stacked deck against him to begin with.

Before he could take any move, before he even knew there was a fight, he was silenced by a probably mid-level wizard and immediately engaged by 6 ghouls in a tight space. Everyone else had a choice to engage the fight from a distance.

But again, I think Occtis was meant to die because death in this setting is not necessarily going to mean the same thing as it does in a regular D&D game and I think his character’s arc is supposed to highlight that.

 

[Charlaquin]

My thing with Occtis is that was a pretty stacked deck against him to begin with.

Before he could take any move, before he even knew there was a fight, he was silenced by a probably mid-level wizard and immediately engaged by 6 ghouls in a tight space. Everyone else had a choice to engage the fight from a distance.

But again, I think Occtis was meant to die because death in this setting is not necessarily going to mean the same thing as it does in a regular D&D game and I think his character’s arc is supposed to highlight that.

Yeah, I don’t think Brennan intended for him to die on the first round, but that crit really only sped up the inevitable. And Brennan outright said at one point that he knew Octis “might” die in this fight. I don’t see any reasonable way for him to have survived, especially with the flanking rules in play, the chances of him going down to 0 HP on round 1 and getting double-tapped on round 2 were all but a guarantee. And Brennan making a point to say at the beginning that these fights are not made to be “fair” further reinforces the idea that he expected Octis to die pretty quickly.

 

[overgeeked]

Yeah, I don’t think Brennan intended for him to die on the first round, but that crit really only sped up the inevitable. And Brennan outright said at one point that he knew Octis “might” die in this fight. I don’t see any reasonable way for him to have survived, especially with the flanking rules in play, the chances of him going down to 0 HP on round 1 and getting double-tapped on round 2 were all but a guarantee. And Brennan making a point to say at the beginning that these fights are not made to be “fair” further reinforces the idea that he expected Octis to die pretty quickly.

The whole thing struck me as a set up, honestly. Brennan trying to force a particular character beat to happen. It seemed pretty clear that the NPCs had the goal of killing Octis and reviving him as a revenant or similar. This explains why they replaced his heart with the stone and why later removing the stone perma-killed the character.

 

[overgeeked]

And Brennan making a point to say at the beginning that these fights are not made to be “fair”

Yeah. How many blinking red lights do you need before taking the hint.

Also, at the end, it was just Matt dragging things out. Brennan explicitly said the undead couldn't cross the bridge and yet Matt and Ashley both tried to do the "I'll hold them here" thing. It was really kinda weird.

 

[Charlaquin]

The whole thing struck me as a set up, honestly. Brennan trying to force a particular character beat to happen. It seemed pretty clear that the NPCs had the goal of killing Octis and reviving him as a revenant or similar. This explains why they replaced his heart with the stone and why later removing the stone perma-killed the character.

Oh, it absolutely was set up to produce a specific story outcome. Some may find that distasteful - I certainly would, in the context of a home game. In a show that’s effectively a semi-improvised audio drama, I’m alright with it. Especially because it is still part of the overture. But, yeah, I do think this likely signals they’re leaning more towards curated viewer experience than organic player experience.

 

[Charlaquin]

Yeah. How many blinking red lights do you need before taking the hint.

Also, at the end, it was just Matt dragging things out. Brennan explicitly said the undead couldn't cross the bridge and yet Matt and Ashley both tried to do the "I'll hold them here" thing. It was really kinda weird.

That can happen when you have multiple players wanting to be the broody, stoic badass with a secret heart of gold. I do hope that if they are at the same table, they don’t make a habit of getting into Big Damn Hero contests.