Criticals... How to maximize them

[Benben]

I would be inclined to think that the ability actually increases the weapon's mult for the purposes of burst weapons.

Doesn't the ability say something like "the weapon's multiplier is increased by 1" or somesuch? Sounds like the weapons multiplier is increased.

--Guessticulating Spikey

Are there any cases of magic items increasing in ability like this due to a feat/class ability? I can't think of any precedent like this in the DMG, and I'm hesitant to allow a magic weapon's enhancement to increase like this.

I can see the argument for allowing it though.

 

[SpikeyFreak]

Are there any cases of magic items increasing in ability like this due to a feat/class ability? I can't think of any precedent like this in the DMG, and I'm hesitant to allow a magic weapon's enhancement to increase like this.

I can see the argument for allowing it though.

Yes. Vorpal weapons work with the extra range from improved critical.

This isn't explicitly stated anywhere, but Monte Cook has said that he has a house rule that they only work with the natural crit range of the weapon, which implies that according to the rules it would work with the extra range.

The abilities actually change the weapons crit range and mult. So by the rules it would work.

--Jaberwockey Spikey

 

[Artoomis]

Yes. Vorpal weapons work with the extra range from improved critical.

This isn't explicitly stated anywhere, but Monte Cook has said that he has a house rule that they only work with the natural crit range of the weapon, which implies that according to the rules it would work with the extra range.

The abilities actually change the weapons crit range and mult. So by the rules it would work.

--Jaberwockey Spikey

Bad example. By the book, the weapon power is activated upon a successful critical - not the same situation. The need for a house rule was evident by the fact that you could design a weapon to lop heads off on 12-20. Entirely different situation. The weapon's properites are not changing, only the likelihood of activating them. Pretty big difference.

The burst effect changes according to the underlying weapon's crit multiplier - not necessarily the modified multiplier - though maybe so. I don't have an answer to this one - I think both sides are correct!

 

[Xahn'Tyr]

Just to toss another shrimp onto the barby: keep in mind the Assassin's Sense spell from R&R. It's first level and increases the crit multiplier of any weapon you use by 1. Also increases the threat range by 1, but that's not what we're interested in here.

What is interesting is that this specificaly affects the player rather than the weapon. You can swap weapons all you want while under the influence of the spell, and the enchancement applies to whatever weapon you are currently using.

 

[Benben]

The burst effect changes according to the underlying weapon's crit multiplier - not necessarily the modified multiplier - though maybe so. I don't have an answer to this one - I think both sides are correct!

Exactly. Increasing the crit multiplier increases the strength of the burst enchantment. The vorpal case just happens more frequently, but the *power* of the enchantment itself isn't increased.

Question #2 What about picks and scythes that have their crit multipliers increased and are burst weapons. Is there a cap to the damage or would it follow it's logical progression?

 

[Artoomis]

Exactly. Increasing the crit multiplier increases the strength of the burst enchantment. The vorpal case just happens more frequently, but the *power* of the enchantment itself isn't increased.

Question #2 What about picks and scythes that have their crit multipliers increased and are burst weapons. Is there a cap to the damage or would it follow it's logical progression?

An excellent question. The simplest answer (often that's the best one) is that you use the weapon's unmodifed critical multiplier. I wonder what's WotC's positio on this is?

 

[Benben]

An excellent question. The simplest answer (often that's the best one) is that you use the weapon's unmodifed critical multiplier. I wonder what's WotC's positio on this is?

I agree with you here, but seing a Scythe doing +5D10 burst damage tickles my inner munchkin.

I don't think the burst enchantments can be retrocatively increased, and therefore the unmodified values should be used.

 

[SpikeyFreak]

I'm confused.

The ability says that it increases the weapon's multiplier.

The enchantment say that it is based on the weapon's multiplier.

Where is there any ambiguity? Nowhere, in any source, is there anything that would make it any other way.

So why would you say that isn't the way it is?

--Baffled Spikey

 

[Boone]

Exactly. Increasing the crit multiplier increases the strength of the burst enchantment. The vorpal case just happens more frequently, but the *power* of the enchantment itself isn't increased.

How can you justify that stregnth of the burst increases? How does this line of reasoning stack up on the issue of game balance.

I am sure tha there are a ton of spell casters that would like to increase the stregnth of their fireball bursts through luck of roll of a d20. and not through a load of feats or sacrafice of other spell levels.

To say the damage done by the weapon, stegnth, expertise, magical or non-magical +'s, power attacks, specialization can be multiplied is reasonable and logical.

To somehow say that a burst is more fantastic because of a variety of reasons including the (weapon master arguement) is unresonable. (does a wand get a critical? does a staff? do magic missles?)

 

[Benben]

How can you justify that stregnth of the burst increases? How does this line of reasoning stack up on the issue of game balance.

If you read the rest of the discussion you'll see that I agree with you; however, I don't see and explicit rule against this, only a lack of commentray in the burst description.

I believe this might need to be clarified by the sage. Anybody have his contact info handy?

To somehow say that a burst is more fantastic because of a variety of reasons including the (weapon master arguement) is unresonable. (does a wand get a critical? does a staff? do magic missles?) [/B]

A wand or staff of enervation would get a critical, and might (I don't have the book in front of me) even be increased to a triple critical using the Assassin's Sense spell.