Critique on a prestige class

s0rn

First Post
One of the players in my group is looking to create a new prestige class for himself and his cohort (he is currently playing a 13th level bard, and his cohort is a 12th level wizard). I am not the DM, but people often come to me with rules questions, and he is looking for my advice on this. I have my own thoughts on the class, but I thought I would put it up here for everyone to take a shot at. Please let me know what you think, your opinions will be helpful in giving this player reasons for not allowing this into the game.

(I couldn't get the tables formatted correctly so please see the attached word document for the class).

Edit: The player has added the following to his proposal:

1) Dedicated Partners must be within speaking range to be able to use this prestige classes spells.
2) If one partner dies the other can not use the prestige class's spells ( spells granted specifically from the prestige class) with the exception of if you had taken raise dead, resurrection, or true resurrection to revive your partner only.
3) If partner dies then the surviving partner is at a -1 morale penalty to all checks, spell DC's, attacks, saves, etc until the partner is brought back to life or 5 years have passed.
 

Attachments

Last edited:

log in or register to remove this ad

Helping Hand

For thos unwilling to download...


Proposed Prestige Class

Dedicated Partner ( name might need some work )

PreReq’s-
1) Must be a spellcaster
2) Base attack bonus of +5 or greater
3) Must have known partner for at least 5 years and been in close proximity to them during that time.
4) Must be no more then one step alignment wise from each other ex: good to neutral is ok but good to any evil is not
5) Concentration of at least 10 ranks
6) Both PC’s must level up at the same time ( even if one must wait for the other to take this prestige class at the same time or not at all ).

Skill points of 3 + int mod. Per level

Hit points of 1d6 per level

Code:
[color=white]
Class level	BAB	FORT	REF	WILL	SPECIAL			          Spells/day*
1		0	0	1	1	See Below**                             +1
2		1	1	0	0		                                +1	
3		1	0	1	1			                        +1	
4		2	1	0	0			                        +1	
5		2	0	1	1						+1
6		3	1	0	0						+1
7		3	0	1	1						+1
8		4	1	0	0						+1
9		4	0	1	1						+1
10		5	1	0	0						+1
[/color]
-----
**: personal only spells may effect partner, Spellcraft DC’s increase by +1. Level spell knowledge of partner
-----

Weapons and armor proficiency: no new ones gained

At 1st level personal only spells may target partner.

The character gains new spells per day as if she had also gained the level in a spellcasting class she belonged to before becoming a Dedicated Partner. She does not however gain any other benefits a character of that class would have gained . If the character had more then one spellcasting class you must choose one to advance.

Spellcraft checks to identify either partners cast spells increases by +1 difficulty per level of this prestige class due to the intermingling of the magics.


Every level taken in this prestige class allows you to learn one spell from your partners spellcasting class equal to your level in this prestige class ( or a level lower ) . IE If you were second level in this class then you would know one 1st level spell from your partners spell list and one 2nd level spell. Your prime caster stat effects both the number of times per day you can cast the spell ( bonus spell ) and the difficulty of the saving throw. See chart below for number of castings allowed/day ( not counting bonus spells )

In order to cast any of these spells you must be within normal conversation range of your partner.

Code:
[color=white]
		Spell Level 
			1	2	3	4	5	6	7	8	9	
Character Prestige
Levels
1			1
2			1	1
3			2	1	1
4			2	2	1	1
5			3	2	2	1	1
6			3	3	2	2	1	1
7			4	3	3	2	2	1	1
8			4	4	3	3	2	2	1	1
9			4	4	4	3	3	2	2	1	1
10			5	4	4	4	3	3	2	2	1
[/color]

So as an example Wyst at 13th level and Tryst at 12th level advance a level. They both take a level in Dedicated Partner. Wyst is a bard and at 14th level would gain a single new known bard spell as per the PHB. He would also gain the single additional casting of a 0th, 1st and 5th level spell ( able to cast 3 more times per day then he could before ). Wyst could then choose a single spell from Tryst’s known 1st level spells ex: burning hands. He would then be able to cast Burning hands once per day modified by his charisma modifier for bonus spells (+2) for a total of 3 times per day. No spell book is needed for this spell but any spell components must be supplied and the chance of armor causing the spell to fail still applies.

Tryst at 13th level of a wizard would learn 2 new spells of 7th level normally and could cast it once per day modified by her intelligence bonus to two spells at 7th level per day. With the prestige class she would also learn from Wyst a single first level spell say for example Mage Armor and she could cast it once per day modified by her intelligence bonus ( +2) so she could cast it 3 times per day.

-----
Edit: The player has added the following to his proposal:

1) Dedicated Partners must be within speaking range to be able to use this prestige classes spells.
2) If one partner dies the other can not use the prestige class's spells ( spells granted specifically from the prestige class) with the exception of if you had taken raise dead, resurrection, or true resurrection to revive your partner only.
3) If partner dies then the surviving partner is at a -1 morale penalty to all checks, spell DC's, attacks, saves, etc until the partner is brought back to life or 5 years have passed.

-----

Alright now you may think this is really powerful but I am definitely willing to work with you to allow me to do this. I’d like to point out that for Wyst to even reach 4th level of this prestige class he’d have to be 17th level total and over 64,000 experience points away. At 4th level of this prestige class you’d have 1 spell each of 1st thru 4th of your partners spells ( and you’d never know more then one spell from each of the levels). In Wyst and Tryst’s case Tryst would never be able to know any spells higher then 6th level as a bard’s spells don’t go beyond that.
 

Confused

Ok, this whole concept just leaves me uterly confused. What is the point? It is so poorly written that it is really hard to understand what the class feature is. Not to mention it is is very poorly written mechanics wise...

Skills should be 2+ or 4+.
The Pre-Reqs need a LOT of work.
Whats up with the Save mods?


Now please forgive me if I misinterpreted the main point but...

What is SEEMS from the example is that at each level of the PRC you gain spells from the 2nd table as free castings above and beyond your normal spells per day plus your Stat modifier per spell???

ex: At 1st PrC you would gain a 1st level spell that your partner knows that you can cast for free 1/day plus your Stat modifier?

And at 5th PrC you would have a net gain of:
* 3 1st level spells, each cast for free 1/day + Stat Mod each
* 2 2nd level spells, each cast for free 1/day + Stat Mod each
* 2 3rd level spells, each cast for free 1/day + Stat Mod each
* 1 4th level spells, each cast for free 1/day + Stat Mod each
* 1 5th level spells, each cast for free 1/day + Stat Mod each

So umm for a total of 9 extra spells per day + [9x(Stat Mod)]...


..... ::blink:: ..... ::blink:: .....


..... ::blink:: ..... ::blink:: .....


Umm.... WOW! Are you insane? Can I say H*** NO!?!

Hi, Im Sorcerer Daryl and this is my cousin Daryl the Sorcerer...

Sor10/PrC5 (Cha18) + Sor10/PrC5 (Cha18)

Prc5 = 3+(S*3)/2+(S*2)/2+(S*2)/1+S/1+S
S= Cha18 = +4

Thus...

Each go from casting a Core 6/7/7/7/6/3 to 6/[size=large]22/17/17/11/8[/size]

and...

Each go from Knowing 9/5/4/3/2/1 to 9/8/6/5/3/2

ARGHHH!!!!


If this is NOT the intent, please clarify. If it IS the intent, just burn the paper it was written on. Seriously, this is bad. It COULD be developed into somthing workable if we had a better understanding of the intent of the mechanic in the 1st place.

Just my initial thoughts.
 

I think their basic intent is to show that by studying together, they are increasing their power. Either that, or they want to act as something akin to a Jaccob's Laddder. When they are together, a little extra power arcs between them. Nice ideas, both, but its not coming out great at first glance.

Depending on wich they are going for...

Cooperative Spell. See T&B.

Have them take above as a prerequisite for another feat that both must have.

Improved Cooperative Spell.

+2 to spell save, and +1 to SR and caster checks for any spell cast while adjacent to partner. If both cast the same spell simultaneously, as per Cooperative Spell, a further +1 is added to all of the above.


Or...


Concerted Study.

When two Sorcerers take this feat, they can learn some of the other's spells. Any time one takes the Extra Spell feat, (See T&B), the other Sorcerer gains the same spell.

A tad powerful, perhaps, but it requires Feats, and looses a little in flexability, which is important to Sorcerers.



If their hearts are set on a PrC, they are going to need to flesh it aout a little bit more. If Khaalis is interpreting it correctly, it is too powerful on the number of spell, and has nothing else to offer. The HD should be D4, as well.
 

Thanks for the replies (and to Khaalis for putting in the table). As far as I can tell, he is aiming to get both normal spell progression and the PrC progression. I also have already mentioned to him that the requirements seem all wrong and very easy to achieve. Those feat suggestions seem to be along the right path, although the class is still no doubt way to good if it gives all those extra spells. I will try and get some clarification from the player, and also clue the DM into this thread.
 


Re: Helping Hand

It looks horrifically over-powered. The saves are basically good (average +1/2 levels), hit points are d6, 3 skill points/level, and spell caster level increases at each level.

Twin sorcerers would be far better off taking this class than advancing as sorcerers, but it seems to be crafted (by a power gamer) for use with a bard/wizard or a cleric/wizard, since it allows you to take spells from other class spell lists.

I play a bard with a wizard cohort and almost feel guilty about the power I can bring to bear. If I even suggested this class to the DM, I would feel so guilty that I would likely commit hara kiri.

I would fully expect the cohort to become a mystic theurge so the player can have even more access to spells.

On a more constructive note: this tuning of power can be handled with feats instead of a class.
 

Remove ads

Top