Critiques of 4e: about style not substance?

[Gladius Legis]

But the mathematical deconstruction of the Skill Challenge system is what's called constructive criticism. Or substantive criticism. Based on experience with the game in some form or fashion (playing it or analyzing its math). Criticism that may actually be helpful. A gripe I personally have is that the mechanics behind save or dies were reasonably balanced out, but only monsters have them.

Unfortunately, those are very rare exceptions in the grand sea of 4e "criticism." Most of it really is the worthless "lol naruto anime world of warcraft" stuff.

 

[Ahglock]

D&d 4.5

I want Advanced 4e, where they put options back in.

 

[Ahglock]

Unfortunately, those are very rare exceptions in the grand sea of 4e "criticism." Most of it really is the worthless "lol naruto anime world of warcraft" stuff.

I wish it was more naruto anime. Then we would have summons, more powerful effects, you could use powers more often and easily use the same power multiple times, you would not magically forget your basics, it would be awesome.

 

[LostSoul]

I want it to look like something out of a game where flavor and mechanics support each other, so unfortunately, you are not correct.

So if I want to say that a hit from his Triple Flail "tears the flesh away from your bones, saps your strength, and the unholy magics leave you unable to move" I'm wrong? I can't do that? That's not what happened because it didn't spell it out for me in the stat block?

Or if I say that, when the flail hits, steel snakes writhe out of it and attach you to the ground, ripping and tearing at your flesh, I can't do that?

And if I choose to describe it that way, and the hit PC does a Stunt - let's say that he uses Acrobatics "to slip free of them", I can make that happen too! Hell, I could see a player saying, "Bah, I push on through them, they can't hold me" and I say, "Okay, make a Str check as a Move action, failure you take 15 damage (the aftereffect), success you move your normal speed."

(There's some kind of... "currency" going on in 4e that has to do with checks, attacks, and actions. What I mean is that you can do a lot of stuff with a standard action, and there's some kind of mechanical logic on how you resolve it, but it's obscure, behind the scenes. I think it's something like Powers are pre-defined "stunts" that are a little better than regular "stunts" in most cases.)

I don't feel I should have to supply the awesome. If I have to redesign and "skin" D&D just to play it, there are a ton of games out there that offer more for less effort.

And on the other hand, I don't want the rules to restrain my creativity - of what happens moment-to-moment in the game - beyond a certain point. "the target is immobilized (save ends)" is all I want to hear, not a hard-coded "this is exactly what happened."

 

[frankthedm]

I want Advanced 4e, where they put options back in.

I have a hunch that will be the next edition. Marketed as less of a new edition and more of a upgrade for those who want it. The first year Wotc will ACT like they are parallel product lines, but they will swiftly sweep 4E 'basic' under the rug as they claim they are focusing on 4dv4nced D&D due to demand.