Cross-gender PCs

[The Green Adam]

For the same reasons you're playing a Lizard Man or an alien from Krypton- because it fits the PC concept.

Now this I can understand and get behind as a valid reason to let a player do it. I just speak from experience when I say I've seen far to many sad or meaningless cross-gender portrayals. Also, I find its more common to have cross-gender portrayals in groups where the majority of the members are the same sex. Luckily I've had a good deal of female players over the years. My guys play guys and my gals play gals. Strangely...it works!

AD
"I have one job on this ship, it's stupid but I'm going to do it. OK?!"

 

[Serendipity]

I'm shaking my head at a lot of these responses - I can only reconcile them with my own experience by guessing that there are a lot of really crappy immature players out there that I've been evidently godkissed not to have encountered. (Though I suspect these'd be the same sorts of players that would look at me, and snicker wondering if "she forgot her character" or something stupid like that.)

It's a non-issue for me and it's never ever been an issue in any game I've ever played in - and I've been gaming since 1981. I can't imagine people having an issue with this. I'm not trying to cast stones, not at all, but I just can't believe it's a big deal (at all) let alone such a flash point with so many.

 

[Ukyo the undead]

(...)

I actually have this idea for an infernal pact warlock half elf, who had to give up her first born as part of the pact and after that had a chance of heart about getting all this power and is now trying to get out of the pact and get her son back. Now you could say that this could work just as well with a male character, but it just doesn´t feel the same. In fact most of my characters have a very clear image to me that is usually decidely either male or female and it would just not feel right to not choose that gender...

That being said most of the time the gender of the characters we play doesn´t really influence the games directly, but sometimes it does and for those times, a player should be free to choose whatever gender (s)he wants...

I think you've pointed out a very relevant point in the whole discussion: sometimes a character concept only fits ( or fits better) in a certain gender, and forbiding it could take more from the game than a occasional player that use a opposite gender PC just to make people uncomfostable at the table.

Another point that is importante to take is that the no cross gender rules should be much more a warning that stupid characters will not be tolerated than a hard rule.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

I think something that factors into all of this is the common FRPG assumption that gender roles- other that the procreative aspect, of course- within the campaign world has no real difference. Women are able to be whatever men can be, and vice versa.

Yet this is clearly not the case in most major societies forming the underlying model for a typical FRPG.

Yes, I know that PCs are exceptional people...but some of these societal/institutional rules were absolutes.

Consider: a typical FRPG religion has clergy of either sex- yes, there are exceptions, but they're a notable minority- but most RW religions have distinct roles for women and men within the faith heirarchy. Ask any practicing Catholic- there is a HUGE difference between a Priest and a Nun...the latter are the real hard cases (which is why I love my Reaper Battle Nun minis).

In some societies, a woman bearing arms was arrestable on sight. In others, unmarried women couldn't appear in public without a male relative.

The Amazons of legend weren't the norm, they were the extremely exotic exception.

In Earthsea, scholarly magic (such as on Roke Island) was limited to men only. Witches, the exception, had no real organization to foster their training.

So, again, the ban potentially robs good players of the opportunity to play good characters.

Banning certain people from playing cross-gender PCs, OTOH, I can understand, but still wouldn't support. Nobody should be playing a PC that someone finds deeply offensive, but rather than ban a PC concept, I'd favor a sanction on the player, like kicking them out of the group for a while.

Because, doggone it, I'm a Catholic black guy who (besides playing the occasional female) might one day might want to play a Chinese Buddhist or "Deep South" member of the KKK (again). If I don't support my fellow gamers' desires to play unusual/oddball/ PCs that are in some way against type, they won't support my desires to do likewise.

 

[Hella_Tellah]

So, again, the ban potentially robs good players of the opportunity to play good characters.

Exactly. On top of that, banning gender-swapping requires me, the GM, to rewrite the story so that women and men can all do the same stuff! As a history nerd, I reserve the right to run a game set in a sexist, racist, classist society--not to penalize people of a particular gender, race, or class, but to explore that idea in the story. I write game plots that push buttons and explore social issues, and my players play my games to have their buttons pushed. If I rewrite medieval Europe as gender-neutral, doesn't that deny the long history of patriarchal subjugation? Doesn't that denial, in itself, serve the patriarchy's purpose?

I recognize that the D&D world is not medieval Europe, nor even a very close analog, so I sort of except D&D from that notion. I can imagine a Faerun or Eberron that enjoys complete gender equality and always has. I suppose that, if gender plays no role at all in the game, restricting gender won't limit your storytelling prospects. If, however, a GM runs a game in which gender roles do factor in to the society, I think it's quite unkind to the women in the group to force them to play house-bound noblewomen, rather than daring men of adventure.

 

[S'mon]

". That or there is no indication that the character is a different sex then the player except that its listed on the character sheet.

Reactions like this are why I generally prefer to play a female PC only with a female GM.

You'd probably see my female PCs like that, since they're usually tough-minded heavily armoured Fighter types, nary a chainmail bikini or unicorn to be seen. However I definitely subtly alter my characterisation when playing a female PC, there are differences if you know where to look.

 

[lutecius]

Encountering so many posters with the same gender rule always leaves me scratching my head.

Same here. I guess I fall in the "mostly plays idealized versions of himself" category but i've played and seen a few "cross-gender pcs", especially when I started playing, back in middle school. They were generally fun and none of the girls in our group were offended by males playing stereotypical fantasy babes.

I can't see how a female character played by a male, no matter how stereotypical or "unrealistic", is in itself more disruptive than drunken antisocial dwarves or snotty elves. A disruptive player is going to be disruptive no matter what character he plays.

As for believability... What???
Compared to common portrayals of dungeon crawling sociopaths and improbable fantasy races, I find slutty or bitchy women quite believable.

Likewise, the player/character gender discrepancy doesn’t break my suspension of disbelief any more than stereotypical gamers portraying attractive/charismatic heroes or muscular barbarians

Romantic interactions involving PCs are going to be awkward, regardless of the player’s or dm’s gender. In this case, not using 1st person helps a lot, though occasional cheesy falsettos can be fun, depending on the tone of the game.

 

[Crothian]

I can't see how a female character played by a male, no matter how stereotypical or "unrealistic", is in itself more disruptive than drunken antisocial dwarves or snotty elves. A disruptive player is going to be disruptive no matter what character he plays.

It is more disruptive when it insults the other female players at the table. Since I never play with elves and dwarves playing them like s stereotype doesn't offend any one.

 

[lutecius]

It is more disruptive when it insults the other female players at the table. Since I never play with elves and dwarves playing them like s stereotype doesn't offend any one.

I don't know. It's a game, not a political statement.

Like others said, I don't think any male would be offended by male stereotypes in game. And like i said, I have never met a female player actually offended by the portrayal of a female character.
Have you? Is it the main reason why you and others are reticent to allow "cross gender" pc?

Now that i think of it. I think the same goes for real world "races", cultures or sexualities. In most cases, if someone choses to play a female/black/pseudo-french/gay character, his portrayal isn't likely to be truly offensive even if it's stereotypical or unrealistic. Unless it's a one-shot and/or he's actively trying to be a jerk. But then again the problem is more the player than the character.

 

[Crothian]

There are some people who can do it just fine, so i never had a rule that would punish those people.

I'm quoting myself so people know I don't make rules like this that prevent people from playing cross gender. I am cautious of people that do it. You might be fine at it, but I don't know that. and I've had enough bad experiences with it that I no longer give people I don't know the benefit of the doubt anymore. But i don't play with people i don't know so it is never an issue

I don't know. It's a game, not a political statement.

I've been in games that were both. I don't usually game that way, but I have seen DM's that like to. But that's another whole thread.

Like others said, I don't think any male would be offended by male stereotypes in game. And like i said, I have never met a female player actually offended by the portrayal of a female character.
Have you? Is it the main reason why you and others are reticent to allow "cross gender" pc?

I have no idea what the main reason for others is. I'm not going to try to speak for anyone but myself. I have seen women that were offended by how others have played the game. Now, these players were bad players and it could have a been a lot of different things that caused the offense.

But then again the problem is more the player than the character.

Ya, the problem is usually more of a player problem then anything. But it can be seen to some people as a warning sign of a bad player.

Personally, I would talk to a player that wanted to do this and see why they wanted to do this. Once I get into the reasons behind the choice it is usually clearer how it is going to work out. I'm a reasonable person and even if the first character idea the player has doesn't work then we can try something else.

While people don't understand why some people would ban cross gender characters, I don't get why some people would refuse to play in games that do this. For those posters are the only character ideas you have cross gender?