Crusaders are awesome!

[Particle_Man]

An unusual D&D 3E class: You get a certain amount of kewl powers available to you in a combat round, but they are picked randomly from a larger pool (itself chosen deliberately by you, at chargen and level ups). Then every round you get another power released to you, again randomly. When there are no more powers from the larger pool to be released into the smaller pool, you start the process all over again.

In practical terms, it means you always have a choice of cool things to do in a combat turn, but you never know precisely what all the options are going to be.

I love this game mechanic and have not yet seen this exact combination of randomness appear elsewhere in an rpg. I suppose it is a little like CCGs although I have not played them more than a few times. It is way less complicated than a CCG of course, which is probably also good for me.

It does help to have a small deck of cards to simulate the random draw factor.

And this is by no means a powerhouse. The halfling crusader I play has str 13, dex 13, con 12, int 7, wis 12, chr 12. (4d6 char gen, and I decided to go with destiny and reduce the 15 I got).

Her one fault is that she is pretty slow in chainmail, but I am saving up for a riding dog or war pony.

 

[ruemere]

And here is where I beg to differ. Randomizing is fun provided you do it for a single character. Try to build a squad of 12 crusaders and you're going to hate the mechanic. Try to run scenario about storming cursader monastery and you'll be guaranteed to send a hitman after designers.

For the same reasons I have converted maneuvers for usage by all martial classes and banned use of ToB classes. Yes, they are fun to play but unless you're comfortable with players using different set of rules from your NPCs, you just might consider a course in Advanced Accounting for GMs and Players with Hours of Free Time to Burn.

Regards,
Ruemere

 

[Dice4Hire]

I agree it is a wonky mechanic, and just serves to complicate the game. I did not like 9 swords at all, and after I played it, I liked it less. Totally unbalanced among the different ways of using and regaining martial powers, and the powers themselves were unbalanced. I mean, a power at 3rd level tht does 8d8 extra damage, and can be sued every other rond on average with the right build. That seems kinda ..... good.

To be fair, many were ok, and the fighter types did nee a boost, but I think 9 swords was not the way to do it.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

I mean, a power at 3rd level tht does 8d8 extra damage, and can be sued every other rond on average with the right build. That seems kinda ..... good.

4th level, Divine Surge. And it's impossible to use every other round. Only Crusaders get it, and even with Extra Granted Maneuver (which can only be taken once), maneuvers granted refresh only once every 3 rounds, iirc. You could get a rather pricy Devoted Spirit amulet to use it twice in a row once per encounter, I guess.

But yeah, that maneuver is one of the few I question the balance of. It's just a LOT of damage at level 7. However, most books have a few bits of overpowered/broken material. Also, it's the one of the first DS strikes that's actually useful offensively (other being the one that's +2d6 and overcome hardness), IMHO. I know the discipline is more about healing and what-not, but every discipline needs some decent offensive options. I might end up replacing a few d8's with a status effect, though.


As for the OP...I also like the crusader, though it's somewhat difficult to run. It'd be nice ot see it in a D&D videogame, since a computer could quickly handle the maneuver "drawing" compared to a person. I'm not a fan of CCGs either, though I really enjoyed the Baten Kaitos game, and the instant I saw Crusader, it reminded me of that game.

 

[Scurvy_Platypus]

What OGL product is being talked about here? Or is this actually a WotC book?

 

[Shroomy]

What OGL product is being talked about here? Or is this actually a WotC book?

There talking about the crusader class from a late 3.5e release called the Tome of Battle: The Book of Nine Swords.

 

[Andor]

It's the Book of 9 Swords. An actual WotC book.

And as awkward as crusaders look in the book, in play I found them quite easy to run, and a lot of fun.

You do need to make a manuvers deck however.

Although if I were determined to do a host of NPC crusaders I think I would instead make a table of manuvers and use colored, numbered tokens for the NPCs that I could just place on the table to show what manuvers they have available. I think that would be the most efficient way to book keep that info.

 

[thecasualoblivion]

4th level, Divine Surge. And it's impossible to use every other round. Only Crusaders get it, and even with Extra Granted Maneuver (which can only be taken once), maneuvers granted refresh only once every 3 rounds, iirc. You could get a rather pricy Devoted Spirit amulet to use it twice in a row once per encounter, I guess.

But yeah, that maneuver is one of the few I question the balance of. It's just a LOT of damage at level 7. However, most books have a few bits of overpowered/broken material. Also, it's the one of the first DS strikes that's actually useful offensively (other being the one that's +2d6 and overcome hardness), IMHO. I know the discipline is more about healing and what-not, but every discipline needs some decent offensive options. I might end up replacing a few d8's with a status effect, though.

You can replicate that sort of damage with TWF + Sneak Attack or with a charge build. We had a Warblade charger who could deal 60 damage without breaking a sweat at that level.

 

[Scurvy_Platypus]

Ah, thanks for the replies. I thumbed through the book once, but it seemed to be adding an awful lot of complexity for no real gain, so I didn't pick it up.

I gotta admit though, the Crusader does sound like it'd be kinda fun as a player. As a GM... I've got too many other things to worry about.

 

[Rechan]

And here is where I beg to differ. Randomizing is fun provided you do it for a single character. Try to build a squad of 12 crusaders and you're going to hate the mechanic. Try to run scenario about storming cursader monastery and you'll be guaranteed to send a hitman after designers.

Sounds to me like running a group of NPCs with more than one spellcaster.