CthulhuTech - Your Opinion?

[frankthedm]

Hmm, this thread has saved me some $. Thank you.

 

[PaulofCthulhu]

If you've not heard it already, the following may be of interest with respect to CthulhuTech, an interview with the developers.

Yog Radio #28: CthulhuTech

 

[Shining Dragon]

Its an interesting sci-fi game with the Cthulhu Mythos serving as the antagonists rather than some "made-up" aliens.

One problem is with it is its lack of focus... or at least the separate styles of games you can play: Mecha/Engels, New Earth Government (NEG) agents/soldiers or even civilian investigators, Eldritch Society Tagers (plus Sorcerer side kicks). They're not really mixable - Tagers belong to a super secret society and Mecha (or Engels) are a little too large to have clumping around an arcology, let alone a little too important to have people run around with them on "personal" business (say, spending the weekend at your weird Great Uncle's Estate).

Don't get me wrong: its a nice game.... but my tastes don't extend to mecha so that style will be ignored - the other two providing plenty of fun.

But its not Call of Cthulhu. The characters are too... empowered and a little too knowledgeable for your standard CoC fare. And its understandable that some who like that kind of game not like CthulhuTech.

As an aside: I really like what I see in Trail of Cthulhu - its a lot closer to CoC.

 

[Stone Dog]

I understand that, in Cthulhutech, HPL's Mythos is really just window dressing and that the system doesn't support its central tenets very well (if at all). The primary complaint seems to be that it's just not very 'Mythos' at the end of the day.

It can be. Very much can be. In Lovecraft's day the Mythos was a terror because it was unknown, antagonistic and hostile. In the time of Cthulutech it is a terror because we are becoming a new independent race and might be losing bits of what makes us human inch by inch.

"Then mankind would have become as the Great Old Ones; free and wild and beyond good and evil, with laws and morals thrown aside and all men shouting and killing and revelling in joy. Then the liberated Old Ones would teach them new ways to shout and kill and revel and enjoy themselves, and all the earth would flame with a holocaust of ecstasy and freedom."

Cthulutech might be rapidly approaching that day where we become like the Great Old Ones. The long term effects of Arcanotech (I might be mixing my game terms here) aren't fully understood. Sure, the hidden maddening world of the Mythos might be pushed into the light and we've started using its laws and powers against it, but this is a fight where even if we beat the Migou we could easily lose the war against the Mythos.

At what cost, survival?

 

[jdrakeh]

It can be. Very much can be. In Lovecraft's day the Mythos was a terror because it was unknown, antagonistic and hostile. In the time of Cthulutech it is a terror because we are becoming a new independent race and might be losing bits of what makes us human inch by inch.

"Then mankind would have become as the Great Old Ones; free and wild and beyond good and evil, with laws and morals thrown aside and all men shouting and killing and revelling in joy. Then the liberated Old Ones would teach them new ways to shout and kill and revel and enjoy themselves, and all the earth would flame with a holocaust of ecstasy and freedom."

Cthulutech might be rapidly approaching that day where we become like the Great Old Ones. The long term effects of Arcanotech (I might be mixing my game terms here) aren't fully understood. Sure, the hidden maddening world of the Mythos might be pushed into the light and we've started using its laws and powers against it, but this is a fight where even if we beat the Migou we could easily lose the war against the Mythos.

That's all well and good, though it's my understanding that, mechanically, the game supports none of that very well.

 

[talien]

Howdy,

I love the idea of Cthulhu and the notion of Cthulhu vs. mechs in the a futuristic setting. I've been working on converting the mechs to Guardian of Order's d20 Mech SRD, which actually converts quite nicely. And in doing so it really gave me insight into what's wrong with Cthulhutech.

Basically, the mechs are an afterthought. They're standardized across the different types of mechs, but there's many different aspects of each mech that aren't handled.

The problem starts with the pictures. This is a full-color hardcover that oddly reduces the pictures of the mech to a few inches in size. Since mechs are pretty complicated things and are an important staple of anime, big colorful pictures are important. Heavy Gear and Jovian Chronicles are a great example of doing mechs right. If you look closely at the pictures, you can see they're actually snapshots of the larger picture in the beginning of the chapter that shows ALL the mechs. So in other words it's recycled art. In addition, there are little tiny representations of humanoids next to each mech picture to give you a sense of scale. Except in some cases the little silhouette is floating ABOVE the mech, half-off of the graphic of the mech, or not there at all. Very sloppy.

The mech descriptions aren't very complete. Some attributes are standard to all mechs but aren't listed prominently, such as the fact they all have artificial intelligence. In some cases there are repeated stats (one of the mechs have life support and a life support pod, which are duplicative effects).

Then there's the fact that the descriptions we do have don't adequately describe the mech. One mech has a "hard point" option to add/remove weapons so that they're easily switched out. How is that a benefit? What does that mean for switching out weapons quickly? How long does it take?

Another mech has hands. It's hard to tell which have hands and which do not from the pictures, but the impression I get is NEG mechs almost unilaterally don't have hands. So what's the advantage of having hands? The book doesn't say. In fact, the book doesn't even tell you where weapons are, so it's not clear if a "hyperedge blade" is sheathed in a mech or carried by it. As I rebuild the mechs using D20 Mecha rules, all these are answered in the rules themselves...but Cthulhutech should have answers too.

What's unforgivable is how the giant monsters that are part of the Cthulhu genre seem to be completely excluded from the actual giant robot part of the game. Cthulhu and his ilk (and he does have GIANT ilk) would be perfect foils for mecha heroes, and yet they're separated out as if they were part of another game -- and none of the giant monsters are in evidence. Instead we have the somewhat lame Migou mecha that look like bugs. Even though the Migou aren't bugs. Honestly I plan to use Starship Troopers bugs as genetically bred monsters for the Migou...cause if you can breed an entire race of alien-halfbreeds (Nazzadi) why not just breed giant monsters in typical anime fashion?

Speaking of weapons, there seems to be an odd preponderance of slowing-type attacks -- there are Grav bombs and some other Migou weapon that slows opponents down. I have to ask: the Migou steal peoples' brains and genetically created the Nazzadi along with those ugly bug mechs...and they couldn't come up with a weapon more powerful than turning you into a slow-mo effect?

A lot of people reference the artwork as being beautiful, but in my opinion it's static and boring. The main inside cover is a bunch of people standing around staring out at something. It's hardly the action shots I expect from a mecha book (again, see GOO's books).

So I'm going to use D20 Mecha (not the D20 Future version) with D20 Call of Cthulhu, mix in Starship Troopers and I think that'll work nicely. If you want a copy of my conversions I'd be happy to send it to you when I'm finished.

 

[jdrakeh]

Thank you for that in depth assessment, Mr. Tresca! That certainly clarifies that pitfalls of Cthulhtech.

 

[Stone Dog]

That's all well and good, though it's my understanding that, mechanically, the game supports none of that very well.

Why not? It is the state of the world. Mankind is using sciences that are so alien that psychiatry needs a new branch to deal with the mental stress. Humans are increasingly exposing themselves to supernatural forces that would have been horrifying in Lovecraft's day and they are getting used to the idea. Step by step we are harnessing the power of the primal gods, despite the costs and as a race we are pretty okay with the idea. Why do you need mechanical rules for this?

Anyway, it will be interesting to see what people think once more supplement support comes out as well as the story books. Mike V usually talks about the game over at RPGnet, but I think he has some good ideas about how the future and the Mythos clash.

 

[Stone Dog]

I see the point of most of that post except for this part.

What's unforgivable is how the giant monsters that are part of the Cthulhu genre seem to be completely excluded from the actual giant robot part of the game. Cthulhu and his ilk (and he does have GIANT ilk) would be perfect foils for mecha heroes, and yet they're separated out as if they were part of another game -- and none of the giant monsters are in evidence.

From everything I've ever understood... if Cthulu were ever to be a direct problem for more than a few minutes at a time then humanity has much bigger issues than whether we can hold our own in combat. Cthulu mainly sends maddening dreams where he can and occasionally sleepwalks. If he ever woke up fully, we will have lost.

Cthulu is not the End Boss. He is the Bad Ending.

So I'm happy with the fact that the big guys aren't around. Points are pretty solid against the Migou, I kinda like the things, but I can see where you are coming from. The technology things are good points and I'll have to be aware of them when I look more in depth. But the Great Old Ones not having stats yet? Good.

Except for Dagon. Dude is just a big deep one. I bet that would be fun to fight.

 

[The Eternal GM]

Hmmm... I can see that this isn't the game for me. No wonder it was kept out of my hands, heh.

Now, I don't need stats for Great Old Ones or whatever. But... Nah, this just doesn't sound like my cup of tea at all. And since two of my all-time favourite games are Call of Cthulhu and Cyberpunk 2020... That's a surprise.

Or maybe not? Maybe I already have ingrained into my head how a CoC/CP game should go, and this one sounds too dissimilar to that? Could be.