Cultural Substitution Levels

[the Jester]

So how do these look so far?

 

[DarkKestral]

The paladin looks pretty good, the sorceror... I'm not sure about. Are you using the Cloistered Cleric as the 'main' Cleric class and banning the druid? Otherwise, with the severe lack of armor/self-buff spells, there's very few ways for the sorceror to keep himself/herself/itself reasonably alive, and if one's going for the 'blaster' archetype, druid becomes the prime choice, and bards will certainly be the buff kings/queens of the arcane world. I'd consider buffing the substitution levels HDs to maybe d6, because otherwise they will be incredibly fragile as-is, and a druids get polymorph lite as a class ability, better HD, no ASF, and most of the spells you listed as taken away, plus most of the blast-y spells. Perhaps instead, 1 of the two listed spells is taken off the class list, at the player's discretion. Another tack might be giving them one set of clerical domain spells from a restricted list of domains, but at the cost of 1 spell school, no spells of which can be from the banned school. I dunno how it would balance, though.

 

[the Jester]

Hmm, I thought putting some healing on their spell list was pretty sweet, actually. That's why I made it costly- otherwise I felt it was a no-brainer.

But increasing the HD to d6 on those substitution levels isn't a bad idea... it will help offset the loss of some potent defensive spells. Hmmm... *ponders*

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

I don't think I'd categorize missing out on:
Mage armor, polymorph, stoneskin, and project image

as missing out on "all"--or even most--of the defensive spells.

There's still: Shield, alter self, blur, displacement, veil of shadows, blink, invisibility, greater invisibility, shapechange, polymorph any object, etc on the list. And that's not including non-core spells like greater mage armor, greater blink, ghostform, fiendform, dragon scales, draconic might, shieldbearer, etc.

Similarly, magic missile and disintegrate is hardly a dent in the list of blasting spells. The core rules leave scorching ray, flaming sphere, fireball, lightning bolt, cone of cold, ice storm, etc. If non-core rules are allowed, you'll hardly miss either at all. The ray of fire, lesser and normal orbs, etc will almost entirely take their place.

 

[DarkKestral]

No, but certainly many of the lower level long term buffs and a few of the more powerful attack spells worth using in a sorceror are taken away. Since spell selection's so limited, you generally want buffs that offer a significant scale in power and won't require waiting 6-7 levels to get to the next spell that approximates it. Shield's OK, but it's 1 round/level, which means multiple combats will decimate the supply of the buff even in a sorc, and he's not likely to have many buffs available. Healing's good, but not that good, since he doesn't have the armor access every other class w/CLW has (even the bard gets light armor) and a number of the better spells for the purpose are taken away. Alter Self's a good spell, but you want to get outsider type or some type that offers additional racial selections in that case, since you lose so many with polymorph. PAO's what? 7th-8th level? that means waiting 10 levels at least for the change from Alter Self to PAO or Shapechange. Furthermore, True Seeing's a common monster SLA/Su ability, which means invisibility and it's kin are a little less useful. (Still quite useful, but nonetheless, not as good as something which doesn't require that your opponent not be using a spell)

 

[Nifft]

Jester -- please correct me if I'm wrong -- it seems that Forinthia is a militant feudal theocracy with a distrust of arcane magic. Is this correct? If so, I've got some suggestions. I generally agree with the other posters when it comes to strengths & weaknesses of what you've posted.

In general, these cultural sub levels will hamper:
- Arcane spellcasting, particularly Illusion, Enchantment and Necromancy
- Deception and subterfuge
- Chaos

They will promote:
- Support ("buff") spells
- Combat prowess
- Law

The most common things I will take away are:
- Skill(s)
- Bonus Feat
- Specific class feature (e.g. familiar, animal companion)
- Whole school or sub-school of magic


So, here goes:

Forinthian Sorcerer: Distrusted by the Church of Light, some select Sorcerers have been taken in and have attuned themselves to Celestial harmonics rather than Draconic.
HD: d6
Skills: 2+Int -- Bluff (Cha), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Knowledge (arcana, religion) (Int), Profession (Wis), and Spellcraft (Int).

Level 1:
+ Add all "Cure" spells to your spell list.
- You lose access to all spells of the Enchantment (Compulsion) school, and to all spells of the Illusion (Glamer) school.

Level 4:
+ You gain a variant of Eschew Materials which substitutes a Focus component (religions symbol of the Light) for any non-costly material component. Many Forinthian Sorcerers have the symbol of the Light emblazoned on a mithral buckler.
- You forever lose the services of a Familiar.

Level 12:
+ Instead of choosing a 6th level spell, you gain heal as your spell known. Add the planar ally family of spells to your spell list. You gain a +4 Circumstance bonus to all Charisma checks made against [Good] outsiders.
- You forever lose access to all spells of the Necromancy school. Any Necromancy spells you know cannot be cast, but may be traded out as usual. Likewise, you lose access to the planar binding family of spells.



Forinthian Paladin: Some Forinthian knights become embodiments of Law, fighting those that would corrupt as well as their more traditional enemies.

HD: d10
Skills: 2+Int -- Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Handle Animal (Cha), Heal (Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (nobility and royalty, religion) (Int), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), and Sense Motive (Wis).

1st level:
+ / - The standard paladin’s ability to use detect evil at will is replaced by the ability to detect chaos at will. Likewise, his aura is an aura of law, and his smite ability affects chaotic creatures, not evil ones. Whenever his smite ability would increase, it applies to chaotic (not evil) creatures.

4th level:
+ Dispel Chaotic Magic (Su): You gain the ability to counter or dispel certain magical effects.
You can counter or dispel the following spell types: spells with the [Chaotic] descriptor, spells from the Enchantment (Compulsion) subschool.
You can dispel any Spell-Like Ability that meets the above criteria.
You can make a caster level check to dispel a single lingering, baleful Supernatural effect caused by a creature with the (Chaotic) subtype, such as a Chaos Beast's corporeal instability attack, or a Nalfeshnee's dazing smite.
You may use this ability 3 + Cha / day.
- You lose the ability to Turn Undead.

6th level:
+ Break enchantment 1/week (+1/week each time you would otherwise gain an additional weekly use of remove disease).
- Remove disease.



Forinthian Cleric: You're like totally a martial melee cleric for the Theocracy. Take a Fighter level already!

HD: d8
Skills: 2 + Int -- Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Heal (Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (arcana, history, nobility & royalty, religion, the planes) (Int), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis) and Spellcraft (Int).

1st level:
- You must take the War and Law domains.
+ You may choose any martial weapon to gain proficiency and weapon focus (for your War domain benefit).

6th level:
+ You gain Weapon Specialization applied to one weapon for which you already have Weapon Focus.
- You lose one spell slot from your highest Cleric spell level. If you would normally have 1 spell at your highest level, you instead have 0 (only bonus spells).

9th level:
+ You gain +1 BAB instead of +0 BAB -- that is, you have full BAB from level 9 through 12. Thus, even if you stick with straight Cleric, you will have BAB +16 at level 20.
- You lose one spell slot from your second highest Cleric spell level.


What do you think?

Cheers, -- N

 

[Angel Tarragon]

Very neat substituion levels. <Yoink>

 

[Nifft]

One more, for your consideration:

Forinthian Ranger: You are dedicated to hunting creatures of the enemy.

HD: d8
Skills: 6 + Int -- Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Handle Animal (Cha), Heal (Wis), Hide (Dex), Jump (Str), Knowledge (dungeoneering, geography, nature, religion) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Search (Int), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis), Swim (Str), and Use Rope (Dex).

Level 1:
+ You gain access to two additional Favored Enemy choices, which are Minions of Chaos and Heathen Clerics. Minions of Chaos includes all critters with the (Chaotic) subtype (including outsiders). Heathen Clerics includes all Clerics who are not of your faith (Church of Light).
- You may not select Humanoids of any kind as your favored enemy.

Level 4:
+ You gain a +1 bonus to Will saves vs. Enchantment spells and effects. This bonus increases by +1 every four levels (+2 at 8th, +3 at 12th, etc.).
- No animal companion.

... and there should probably be another level. Tired tho'.

Cheers, -- N