Curses, Foiled Again!

[Kestrel]

Should do a 101 Item Curses thread

 

[thedungeondelver]

Cursed items are part of the great tapestry that is DUNGEONS & DRAGONS. I use them frequently. Keeps players on their toes.

 

[Shyloc]

Cursed items I have used, a arm band that gave random attack bonuses +8 to -8 and a pair of gloves that allowed th wearer to wield the maul of the titans, of course the gloves don't come off, and once you grab the maul you can swing it around freely but you cant let go.

 

[Salthorae]

Trouble is that the DC is so low that it usually doesn't matter. I've had a PC in a game I ran who really wanted a particular evil NPC as a good-aligned cohort though, so they poisoned her until she automatically failed all Will saves and then stuck on the helm. It worked out pretty well.

Hmm, so then you had a good cohort and an evil PC? IIRC poisoning is an evil act, so i'm not sure how the PC maintained a good alignment. With alignments the end doesn't justify the means... it changes alignemnts.

On the thread... I love cursed items. Our group now has a bag of devouring that has been put to good use. Thieves guild knows our party on sight now that they've lost more than one hand to our bag

 

[Umbran]

IIRC poisoning is an evil act...

Bit of a hijack, but I don't believe you'll find a clear cite of that in the rules these days. Poison use and the skill to use poisons safely is most common in evil classes, but I don't think they've drawn such a line in the sand in 3.Xe Causing major pain and suffering may be evil, but this sort of poison more smacks of ... a sneaky, underhanded tactic, an unfair fight. And that's not so much a violation of Good as of Law.

 

[Raven Crowking]

Bit of a hijack, but I don't believe you'll find a clear cite of that in the rules these days. Poison use and the skill to use poisons safely is most common in evil classes, but I don't think they've drawn such a line in the sand in 3.Xe Causing major pain and suffering may be evil, but this sort of poison more smacks of ... a sneaky, underhanded tactic, an unfair fight. And that's not so much a violation of Good as of Law.

Intentionally removing freedom of choice of an individual so as to change them into a person that better serves your needs seems to me not so much a violation of Law as of Good.

 

[Umbran]

Intentionally removing freedom of choice of an individual...

Pause right there. To my way of thinking, law and chaos are all about freedom of choice, and how the rights of the individual compare to those of the group.

...so as to change them into a person that better serves your needs seems to me not so much a violation of Law as of Good.

Well hold on a sec. Depriving an evil enemy of all choice, and even depriving them of existance is not generally a problem. Killing evil things is a mainstay of the game for Good characters, right? But only partially depriving them of choice is evil? When, after the change, they do have free will, and presumably only parts of their personality changed, and there's nothing in particular preventing them from sliding back to evil ways?

I don't buy that. Sorry. I still see this as an issue of Law and Chaos, not Good and Evil, as far as the books are concerned.

 

[Cyberhawk]

I rarely use cursed items, except for large magical collections (like dragon hoards). The collector places one or two cursed items so that if they are ever defeated or robbed the thieves will have an unpleasent surprise as they go through their loot.
Plus if the collector is killed then they have a chance of getting revenge from beyond the grave...~insert evil laugh here~.

 

[Raven Crowking]

Pause right there. To my way of thinking, law and chaos are all about freedom of choice, and how the rights of the individual compare to those of the group.

Sure. I would definitely agree that Law and Chaos are about how societal and individual rights are ordered in terms of importance. Law holds that the rights of a society outweight the rights of an individual; Chaos the other way around.

Well hold on a sec. Depriving an evil enemy of all choice, and even depriving them of existance is not generally a problem. Killing evil things is a mainstay of the game for Good characters, right?

Well, according the the SRD

“Good” implies altruism, respect for life, and a concern for the dignity of sentient beings. Good characters make personal sacrifices to help others.

“Evil” implies hurting, oppressing, and killing others. Some evil creatures simply have no compassion for others and kill without qualms if doing so is convenient. Others actively pursue evil, killing for sport or out of duty to some evil deity or master.​

so, if you kill others without qualms, you are evil rather than good. Likewise, evil implies oppressing others, and good implies "a concern for the dignity of sentient beings". Good characters would certainly want to lead others from evil, but, I would suggest, forcibly changing someone's moral outlook isn't "good" -- indeed, it is far worse than oppression of the body, IMHO.

If Identity Crisis is any indication, BTW, Batman agrees with me.

I don't buy that. Sorry. I still see this as an issue of Law and Chaos, not Good and Evil, as far as the books are concerned.

Consider also, from the SRD

"Law” implies honor, trustworthiness, obedience to authority, and reliability. On the downside, lawfulness can include close-mindedness, reactionary adherence to tradition, judgmentalness, and a lack of adaptability. Those who consciously promote lawfulness say that only lawful behavior creates a society in which people can depend on each other and make the right decisions in full confidence that others will act as they should.

“Chaos” implies freedom, adaptability, and flexibility. On the downside, chaos can include recklessness, resentment toward legitimate authority, arbitrary actions, and irresponsibility. Those who promote chaotic behavior say that only unfettered personal freedom allows people to express themselves fully and lets society benefit from the potential that its individuals have within them.​

From this standpoint, one might easily claim that the poison-helm scenario falls more within the Lawful alignment than a violation of it, in that Chaos presumably holds the rights of the individual as more important than the rights of the group.

In fact, this behaviour sounds to me rather like

Lawful Evil, “Dominator”: A lawful evil villain methodically takes what he wants within the limits of his code of conduct without regard for whom it hurts. He cares about tradition, loyalty, and order but not about freedom, dignity, or life.​

RC

 

[The Edge]

Not quite cursed, but my 'Jester's Deck' fits into games in a similar way to many quirky cursed items. The random curse list was a great help in thinking up the generaly un wanted black cards. Its basicly a milder and more managable Deck of many things, with a full 52 cards, red being generaly benifical and black less so.

The party quickly picked up on the black=bad red=good pattern, when they were pelted with rocks and then showered in gold with their first cards. Later as the deck allowed more cards to be drawn they suffered all kinds when their luck seemed to abandon them, but were determined to hold out untill they drew something good (bit like a slot machine). Each time the magic box that held the deck opened for them, they started argueing or rolling dice to decide on who should draw the card and what happens if they get a good card. Was quite amuseing.