Custserv says SRD is wrong.

[TheEvil]

While trying to resolve the Whirlwind Attack during Dervish Dance question on one of the Living Greyhawk boards, I sent a couple questions to WOTC Customer Service to get another opinion. One of the questions I asked was how taking a 5' step during a WWA worked. All questions were answered by the same guy, and he also said that you can WWA during a DD. Results as follows:

Q: How does taking a 5' step during a Whirlwind Attack work?

A: You cannot take a 5' foot step during a whirlwind attack, you may only take it before or after the attack.

Q: Then what about this entry from the SRD under Epic Feats?

IMPROVED WHIRLWIND ATTACK [EPIC]
*snip*
Normal: Without this feat, using the Whirlwind Attack feat requires a full attack action, and the character can take a 5-foot step between any two of the attacks.

A: Well, that's easy. The Epic feat you are referring too was made with the 3.0 version of the rules. The 3.5 version of whirlwind attack does not allow you to move between attacks.

Q: This is in the 3.5 SRD, is there and Errata I should be looking at?

A: Well, that feat is incorrect then, at least the part that refers to what you can normally do with whirlwind attack. There is no errata for it yet, but just ignore the part that says "and the character can take a 5-foot step between any two of the attacks" as this
information is incorrect.

This is the my first experience with Custserv saying that the RAW is wrong. Has anyone else been told that the rules were in error when no errata was printed for them?

 

[Endur]

This is probably specific to that particular part of the rules.

First, I have no clue as to what the EPIC SRD rules are based on. i.e. Are they the 3.0 version? The 3.5 version? Some mix of both?

Second, the Improved Whirlwind feat text you quote is not in the 3.0 Epic book; the feat is in the 3.0 EPic book, but it had different text. So, where that text came from is another question. Maybe its in the ELH erratta, maybe it came from somewhere else

 

[Mistwell]

The Rules As Written are wrong relatively often.

For example, RAW will tell you that a beads of prayer (karma bead only) is free. That's clearly wrong, yet it just has not been errata'ed yet.

There is usually a 6 month to 1 year gap between errors being noticed and an errata. At some point during that waiting period, you just have to depend on your own common sense more than the Rules As Written.

 

[Deset Gled]

Custserv is wrong. The SRD states rather clearly "You can take a 5-foot step before, during, or after your other actions in the round.". I don't know if it's in the SRD, but the PHB also explicitly states that you can take a 5 foot step between attacks in a full attack. I see no reason why Whirlwing attack would stop you from doing so, as it is also a full attack action with multiple attacks.

Custserv has been wrong before, custserv is wrong now, and custserv will continue to be wrong in the future. Custserv personell are not trained to be Sages, so don't expect them to be. A forumula that others have found usefull for dealing with custserv is to form the question so that it must be answered in a yes/no format, take the custserv answer, and do the opposite. AFAIK, this is the most accurate way to interpret custserv responses.

 

[DanMcS]

First, I have no clue as to what the EPIC SRD rules are based on. i.e. Are they the 3.0 version? The 3.5 version? Some mix of both?

There is no published 3.5 version of the epic rules. The only one there is is in the epic SRD. They kinda-sorta converted it over, but you have to be careful, for instance, they still have the epic feat Mighty Rage, even though that ability was made part of the core barbarian in 3.5.

 

[Knight Otu]

First, I have no clue as to what the EPIC SRD rules are based on. i.e. Are they the 3.0 version? The 3.5 version? Some mix of both?

It is based on the 3.5 update the ELH received in the Update booklet. As such, the feat in the SRD is (technically) up to date.

 

[Terath Ninir]

Whirlwind Attack is AN ACTION, not multiple actions. Thus, you can't take a 5 ft. step during it, as customer service says. Think of it as some d00d lifting his sword, whirling around, and smacking everyone in 5 ft. (or in his threatened area, if you use the overpowered 3.5 version) in one strike. Multiple attack rolls, yes, but only one swing, anime stylez.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Whirlwind Attack is not an action.

A whirlwind attack is a option you may use when using the full-attack action.

The full-attack action specifies that you may take a 5' step before or after any individual attack.

Whirlwind attack does not modify that particular condition of full-attack.

Therefore, the rules for full-attack still apply.

You may take a 5' step at any point during a full-attack action, even if that full-attack action has been modified by whirlwind attack.

 

[Thanee]

Yeah, but that doesn't let you attack more targets...

At least, that's how I'd see it... you use WWA, you look who is within your reach, you get to attack each of those once. Doesn't matter, if you move then, because the targets are already determined before you make the first attack.

And who cares about what Custserv says, anyways. These guys have less clue about D&D than half the posters on this site.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Jdvn1]

I think it's cool that Custserv is just like, "It's wrong but we make no effort to tell anyone. Not even the game designers."

Yeah, cool.