[CyberPunk] CyberPsychosis
- Thread starter HellHound
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HellHound
ENnies winner and NOT Scrappy Doo
NilesB said:
Interesting take on it... however I feel that this would run completely contrary to RPGs in general if we didn't include rules for it...
"Can I fast talk? Let me check my character sheet."
"Is my will strong enough to resist this? Let me check my character sheet."
Now, I agree that it should be a test system instead of a raw stat - so you in the examples I gave, you would check your skill or stat and then test it to see if you can fast talk well enough or are strong willed enough... or are human enough.
painandgreed
First Post
HellHound said:
Seems that most futureshock happened to the people who didn't keep up and get the cybernetic enhancements. Much like a person who doesn't have a cell phone or email in the present day. I really don't remember too many issues with people becoming sociopaths due to too many enhancements. Most were already sociopaths and that's why they wanted all those enhancements. Bladerunner: they were formed without humanity and were desperatly trying to find it. Robocop: he was made the way he was and became more human as he went on despite being all robot. Battle Angel Alita had the cyber crazies, but again, most were trying to offset their previous emotional problems by cybering up and there were plenty of mostly cyber characters that continued to develop socialy and spiritually. Bruce Sterlings shaper and machinist stuff presented neither as particularly socially disfuntional due to level of modification (in their own socieites anyway). It was the purely human "super brights" that were disfunctional and self destructive. I can't remember too many cyberpunk or post modern sources where cyber enhancements decreased their social or spirtual abilities. Where it affects the person at all, it tends to show them the importance of such and thus increase them.
Not to say that there aren't some sources that use that trope, but I don't think it's prevelant in the genre as a whole. I wouldn't mind hearing your sources though. I enjoy the genre although it's been years since I've read much. I need to break out Storming the Reality Studio again and give it a re=read.
It seems that the entire cyberpsychosis thing is in there as a balancing factor for role playing games (besides money). If you want to use it as such then do and if you don't, then don't. Decide on the flavor of your game and if you want every brain in a box to be a sociopath or just another guy. Other balancing factor such as money for maintenance and legal restrictions can be used to limit PCs from cybering themselves out.
DarkKestral
First Post
Actually Ghost in the Shell, arguably a classic of the cyberpunk genre, has the cybered characters go psycho more easily.. if the modifications change their body in ways they can't personally deal with. So if they get them on their own, they're OK... usually. But if say you put a 40 year old man's brain into a shell that's designed for a 10 year old boy, then it'll screw them up horribly and they tend to go a little crazy over time. So cyberpsychosis might be something that only affects you specifically if you start screwing around wiht people's body images of their self. Some of the heavily cybered characters can deal wiht it, because they recognize that their body can be changed if they want, though not all can. They might not get alienated from society, but they can certainly get alienated from THEMSELVES.
Calico_Jack73
First Post
Personally I think there needs to be a system for CyberPsychosis.
If you've never seen it try to get a hold of the AD Police (cyberpunk anime) episode entitled "The Man Who Bites His Tongue". After watching it I'm sure you can agree that getting more and more artificial parts grafted onto your body steadily decreases your sanity. I remember that before I saw that episode I really thought it would be cool to play an Eclipse class full conversion cyborg (Chrome Book 2) but after seeing that episode of AD Police the idea didn't seem quite so glamorous anymore. I also agree that the more you look like a robot the more people treat you like a robot be it consciously or subconsciously. To people you cease being a person and become more like a thing. Think about mannequins in the department stores. They look human enough (in most cases) but let's say one animates and you learn that it has a human soul. Even knowing that could you still treat it the same as another human being? I doubt it very seriously.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0088657/
Edit: I realized that I justified Cyberpsychosis but not why you need a system. Simply put, IMHO it is the very rare "method actor" style of roleplayer who will take cyberpychosis into account when role-playing their character. Not having a system will result in every munchkin player who plays it to run around with a full conversion borg and not suffer any consequence. Simply put, if there were no consequences to getting fully borged, why wouldn't everyone in the world do so? Being fully borged your life expectancy would be long enough to pay off almost any debt incurred for the procedure so pretty much everyone could afford it. All creatures have survival instinct and fear death... people would see it as a form of immortality.
If you've never seen it try to get a hold of the AD Police (cyberpunk anime) episode entitled "The Man Who Bites His Tongue". After watching it I'm sure you can agree that getting more and more artificial parts grafted onto your body steadily decreases your sanity. I remember that before I saw that episode I really thought it would be cool to play an Eclipse class full conversion cyborg (Chrome Book 2) but after seeing that episode of AD Police the idea didn't seem quite so glamorous anymore. I also agree that the more you look like a robot the more people treat you like a robot be it consciously or subconsciously. To people you cease being a person and become more like a thing. Think about mannequins in the department stores. They look human enough (in most cases) but let's say one animates and you learn that it has a human soul. Even knowing that could you still treat it the same as another human being? I doubt it very seriously.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0088657/
Edit: I realized that I justified Cyberpsychosis but not why you need a system. Simply put, IMHO it is the very rare "method actor" style of roleplayer who will take cyberpychosis into account when role-playing their character. Not having a system will result in every munchkin player who plays it to run around with a full conversion borg and not suffer any consequence. Simply put, if there were no consequences to getting fully borged, why wouldn't everyone in the world do so? Being fully borged your life expectancy would be long enough to pay off almost any debt incurred for the procedure so pretty much everyone could afford it. All creatures have survival instinct and fear death... people would see it as a form of immortality.
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Dextra
Social Justice Wizard
Mechanics-wise, I think that there should be some sort of sanity meter that takes into consideration not only cyberware but traumas, stress, drug use, etc. Basically, how does your mind and soul handle these issues.
I'm also interested to see the mechanics on how you recover from said items. I'm thinking along the lines of aggravated vs. regular, or real vs. stun damage to your soul (sorry, really having a hard time coming up with a different word for it) score. Some characters should be able to shrug off some stresses after a short while, others develop coping mechanisms some healthier than others (addictions, medication, meditation, insanities/quirks).
Some things have an immediate impact, but with time they may heal, develop emotional scar tissue, resistance, tolerance.
There will be some Tribes whose focus is on cyberware, where status conferred would be dependant upon visible extremes of modifications. In those situations, modifiers would be less detrimental- but once outside that setting, say, working an op' downtown, they would be hit doubly hard by the effects of alienation, because they would be away from the sheltering effects of their tribe.
What about game mechanics for those isolated from their tribe? I would think that the higher ranking/involvement within their tribe, the more of an impact it would have. Someone not invested in the Ambients too excessively- say only having a pinky amputated and a few minor mods would be less of a loss walking down the street by themselves than someone with all limbs removed. Also, need to address the bolstering effect of being amongst your tribemates- morale bonus.
Talk about futureshock: we live together, but here we are telecommunicating. In my defense, RPGs do not make for good pillowtalk (because usually for me, I'm trying to get to sleep, engaging my mental faculties in creative discussion is not going to relax me, it's going to stimulate my noggin and make it difficult for me to get to dreamland!) And also, I'm at work.
I'm also interested to see the mechanics on how you recover from said items. I'm thinking along the lines of aggravated vs. regular, or real vs. stun damage to your soul (sorry, really having a hard time coming up with a different word for it) score. Some characters should be able to shrug off some stresses after a short while, others develop coping mechanisms some healthier than others (addictions, medication, meditation, insanities/quirks).
Some things have an immediate impact, but with time they may heal, develop emotional scar tissue, resistance, tolerance.
There will be some Tribes whose focus is on cyberware, where status conferred would be dependant upon visible extremes of modifications. In those situations, modifiers would be less detrimental- but once outside that setting, say, working an op' downtown, they would be hit doubly hard by the effects of alienation, because they would be away from the sheltering effects of their tribe.
What about game mechanics for those isolated from their tribe? I would think that the higher ranking/involvement within their tribe, the more of an impact it would have. Someone not invested in the Ambients too excessively- say only having a pinky amputated and a few minor mods would be less of a loss walking down the street by themselves than someone with all limbs removed. Also, need to address the bolstering effect of being amongst your tribemates- morale bonus.
Talk about futureshock: we live together, but here we are telecommunicating. In my defense, RPGs do not make for good pillowtalk (because usually for me, I'm trying to get to sleep, engaging my mental faculties in creative discussion is not going to relax me, it's going to stimulate my noggin and make it difficult for me to get to dreamland!) And also, I'm at work.
Cergorach
The Laughing One
My only real experience with cyberpunk RPGs is Shadowrun (1st-3rd), I always found the essence stat a great indicator for the cost of using Cyberware. While the average joe didn't get any side effects until you hit a negative number (cyberzombies), it did confer a feeling of fleeting humanity. But to be honest, I got most of my RPing ques from the descriptions in the catalogs and the runner commentary, particularly memorable is the move-by-wire system that had you in a constant state of seizure (but the chip allowed you to move very quick and smooth). While the stats of that particular cybersystem where not bad, what really made it cool was the fluff text.
To be honest, i remember that in some of the later source books there were rules introduced for social penalties for certain kinds of cyberware, but those (like so many SR expansions) made the game unnecessarily complex.
I do agree that the cyberpcychosis needs to be incorporated in a cyberpunk RPG, but to what extend depends entirely upon the type of game you want it to be. I can see people wanting to treat it as some kind of insanity score reminiscent of a Call of Cthulu game, but personally i find that going a bit overboard. It really depends on how important cyberware is in your game, how strong it is, and how the rest of the game mechanics work. If it is like magic items in a DnD game, we relegate the amount of money the characters can have access to, so we can treat them like magic items and institute a limit on how many can simultaneously be equipped. This can be done on a location basis (arms, head, torso, etc.) or a cumulative count (like Shadowrun. Individual systems could have their own effects, an obvious cyberarm might give you trouble in certain situations, but would give an intimidate bonus as well. Bone replacement on the other hand isn't visible, but tends to set of the metal detectors at every school...
You might want to institute certain mental flaws at certain levels of cybernization, but these could be things a player chooses for his character (and gaining a bonus in some other way), could be forced at a certain level, etc. But players most player want the option to be able to negate such flaws, either by being part of some (prestige) class or through sacrificing a feat.
In short, it completely depends on where you want to go with the RPG and is it needed as a balancing mechanic. I don't doubt that people react differently to having cyberware implanted, it all depends on the person and the situation. Is it their choice, are they forced to do it (either by peer pressure, economics, or necessity), what are their phobias, etc. Some people adjust after loosing a limb, other become extremely angry at the world.
Last week they removed my Galle bladder, a relatively minor operation (i spent less then 48 hours in the hospital), but it freaked me out quite a bit. I particularly hate needles, so having one in my arm for an extended period of time wasn't a pleasant experience. Now i have three small scars on my belly and those freak me out as well. I can only imagine what would happen to my sanity if i had wires running out of my head and my arm was detachable... *brrr*
To be honest, i remember that in some of the later source books there were rules introduced for social penalties for certain kinds of cyberware, but those (like so many SR expansions) made the game unnecessarily complex.
I do agree that the cyberpcychosis needs to be incorporated in a cyberpunk RPG, but to what extend depends entirely upon the type of game you want it to be. I can see people wanting to treat it as some kind of insanity score reminiscent of a Call of Cthulu game, but personally i find that going a bit overboard. It really depends on how important cyberware is in your game, how strong it is, and how the rest of the game mechanics work. If it is like magic items in a DnD game, we relegate the amount of money the characters can have access to, so we can treat them like magic items and institute a limit on how many can simultaneously be equipped. This can be done on a location basis (arms, head, torso, etc.) or a cumulative count (like Shadowrun. Individual systems could have their own effects, an obvious cyberarm might give you trouble in certain situations, but would give an intimidate bonus as well. Bone replacement on the other hand isn't visible, but tends to set of the metal detectors at every school...
You might want to institute certain mental flaws at certain levels of cybernization, but these could be things a player chooses for his character (and gaining a bonus in some other way), could be forced at a certain level, etc. But players most player want the option to be able to negate such flaws, either by being part of some (prestige) class or through sacrificing a feat.
In short, it completely depends on where you want to go with the RPG and is it needed as a balancing mechanic. I don't doubt that people react differently to having cyberware implanted, it all depends on the person and the situation. Is it their choice, are they forced to do it (either by peer pressure, economics, or necessity), what are their phobias, etc. Some people adjust after loosing a limb, other become extremely angry at the world.
Last week they removed my Galle bladder, a relatively minor operation (i spent less then 48 hours in the hospital), but it freaked me out quite a bit. I particularly hate needles, so having one in my arm for an extended period of time wasn't a pleasant experience. Now i have three small scars on my belly and those freak me out as well. I can only imagine what would happen to my sanity if i had wires running out of my head and my arm was detachable... *brrr*
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