[CyberPunk] CyberPsychosis

I never quite understood the rationale for cyberpsychosis. Do people routinely "go crazy" after getting a pacemaker implanted? Does granny turn into a sociopath after getting a hip replacement? Then why should cybernetics affect the sanity of a character? The whole point of cyberpsychosis is simply an inane way to introduce game balance. If it is really necessary to balance cyberware introduce something like a chance of immune system rejection. (After all in real life it is necessary for people who have transplants to take immune system suppressing drugs.) Cyberpsychosis is just plain silly.
 

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Shadow: Yeah, that's one way of saying one of my points above.

Ex Machina, Hero, GURPS, and some of the other options can manage just by having points. You paid 40 points for your robotics, I paid 40 for my set of detective skills. The game assumes we're balanced.

Quite of a bit of Cyberpunk literature, especially newer literature, posits worlds where humanity has embraced the technology rather than been dehumanized by it, much as we have, in the real world, embraced our Web, text-messaging, botox, and pacemakers.

What alienates is then an assortment of other factors.

Maybe you could make an argument that Michael Jackson proves that cyberpsychosis is real, but Joan Rivers is still mostly sane, and they're the only two candidates I can think of. :)
 

The trouble with cyberpsychosis is it is both too broad and specific.

Psychoses happen due to trauma. Some times getting an implant is traumatic. Some times getting an implant is therapeutic. A replacement limb given to someone who lost their arm in an accident mitigates the impact of the trauma. A soldier "volunteered" for an experimental replacement limb is traumatized.

Look at today's cosmetic surgery. For some people, getting a nose job or tummy tuck improves their overall mental health. For others, it is the start of a self destructive addiction to unnecessary surgery. But the thing is the psychosis was there waiting for an outlet, not a direct result of the implant.

Putting "cyber" in front of it implies that only getting implants has an impact on mental health while running over a puppy doesn't.

What you really need is a variant of CoC's Sanity system. Lose a limb in a firefight, lose San. Get a cyberarm or an organlegger replacment and get some of the San back. Get a clonal replacement to get most of it back (there's still some mental scarring from knowing your arm was blown off). Have therapy and get some San back. Have therapy before it happens and not lose so much.

Determine the potential SAN loss from implants based on their impact to sensory perception or body image. "The Man who Bit his Tongue" had limited sensory input from his cyborg body and part of the tongue biting was to provide a clear sensory input. IIRC, similar things happen in sensory deprivation tanks. If you get a combat limb with limited sense of touch, temperature, etc. then you take more SAN loss. Chrome plated arms, that constantly remind you that you aren't entirely you, will also cause mental strain. Get one with a full sensor suite and faux skin and you'll take less.

By that token, a pain editor (common piece of cyber in many games that filters pain signals before they hit the brain) might have a bigger psychological impact than that full sensor, faux skin cyberarm as the pain-free implantee becomes "The guy who kept pinching himself."

Tech that is invisible and imperceptible should have almost no psychological impact beyond the baseline "you had surgery." The amount of scarring will be the biggest reminder that your insides aren't factory original.

The psychosis system should also kick in during the healing period based on the experience of the injury. Somebody who rolls max for "injury based SAN loss" may have looked down into their own guts for a while and wakes up nightly being able to see that image only this time they see themselves on a slab in a morgue. Someone who rolls minimum (maybe zero) doesn't really remember any negative aspects, possibly having passed out immediately, and is really happy to have survived.

The addictive, self-destructive personality will be the schlub who rolls max san loss.

And the Psychoses should not be limited to "becomes sociopath." How about "becomes addicted to implants"? Psychological dependence on technology? Perhaps fear of surgery?

If you're basing it on CP2020, make it a lifepath type flowchart where as you lose SAN you develop progressively worse mental health. Put "sociopath" at the end of an "superiority complex" chain, put "implant addict/dependence" at the end of "inferiority complex" and "hypochondria/cowardice" as the culmination of "phobias."
 

Baron Opal said:
One thing I always had difficulty with in Cyberpunk and Shadowrun is that you could suffer a trauma, get your arm sawn off, get a new metallic arm that replicated all of the previous limb's features even to the point of appearance. That was more damaging to your psyche than planting a bomb on a bus, detonating it as it was going over a bridge and waiting down stream to pick off the survivors with your customized rifle.

In Shadowrun, eventually, they defined Essence loss from implants as being due to your body and your aura no longer being in sync. There were *some* psychic effects as a result, but those weren't really enforced until you hit negative Essence and became a cyberzombie (which was really hard to do).

Specifically, there wasn't Essence loss from being a sociopath. If there was, toxic shamans would not be a problem.

Brad
 

shadow said:
I never quite understood the rationale for cyberpsychosis. Do people routinely "go crazy" after getting a pacemaker implanted? Does granny turn into a sociopath after getting a hip replacement?

Except that none of the examples you list would be enough to cause cyberpsychosis by the CP2020 rules, except for people who are already completely unhinged (Empathy 2).

Did you read the article by Dextra about humanity loss and body modification sblocked in the first post?
 

I felt it was rather weak, based on a very minor anecdotal reference.

Individuals who become addicted to tattoos a) don't become psychotic killers and b) are not the norm. It may be typical for people who get tattoos to get more tattoos but that's like saying people who eat chocolate cake are likely to eat more than one chocolate cake.

The big question is: what percentage of people who get tatoos get addicted to body modification? The number is darned low b/c there are a LOT of people out there with tattoos (there are dozens of tattooists in my city) but not a whole lot that are whole-hog tattooed (and I go to goth and punk shows where they wouldn't be concealed).


Isn't it more likely that the people who become addicted to tattoos, to the point of having a Samson-like complex that ties their self image to their tats, were mentally damaged (Empathy 2) prior to the tattoo?

By the same token, there are buttloads of people getting one or two cosmetic procedures but the number of people who go overboard is still sufficiently low that it's a worthwhile topic for daytime TV. The commonplace becomes banal and daytime TV doesn't want banal.

In CP2020 you can get non-combat implants and still go mad-dog crazy. Yeah, it takes a lot, but is it rational for it to happen at all?

I say, yeah, there's some rationality that at a certain point the knowledge of being 92% synthetic will cause a problem but that it makes more sense to have a generic sanity system that measures all traumas rather than specifically treating cyber as traumatic.

Using an extreme case, a full quadraplegic is likely to be less traumatized as a result of being implanted in a "man who bites his tongue" cybernetic body. How about Steven Hawking? Would he go stark raving mad in a full body prosthesis or would he socialize even more normally?

By the same token, wouldn't a disease that causes a steady, inexorable degradation of all motor skills not cause mental stress to the possible point of psychosis?
 


Numion said:
Cheney shot his friend in the face, and he'd had a new pacemaker earlier :\

lol

Jake, I assume you've looked at the 'humanity loss' rules from nWOD?

Perhaps two sliding scales. The amount you're 'in' with your tribe plus the amount you're considered a person by the outside world is equal to some stat or other. If you go up in one, you go down in the other. If you manage to increase that base stat, you learn better to cope with both sides of the division.

Like my friend J-Roll. He's a geek and engineer who likes gaming and anime, and most of his friends from that group are white, but he's black, and in a typical African American social group, geekdom is not normal. Because of his cross-exposure, though, he's able to act appropriate when among his geek friends, and among his 'normal guy' black friends. He's got a high . . . Wisdom, or whatever.

Certain geeks (some of whom were rather, ahem, popular over at CM) are the opposite. They only know how to act among geeks. Hell, you don't have to be a cyborg to not be viewed as human.

So yeah, the 'tribal' aspect sounds like a good mechanic. You can be part of main-stream society (which really is just the biggest tribe), but you won't be as comfortable in any other tribe you go to.

I don't know what I'm getting at. Never played Cyberpunk.
 

So, I did a little digging...

Adolescent Medicine said:
In some studies, tattooing and body piercing have been associated with
risk-taking behaviors, including sexual intercourse, binge drinking, and substance
use (cigarette smoking, marijuana, and other drugs). Other noted associations
have included physical fights, violence, gang membership, truancy,
delinquency, negative feeling toward the body, anger, disordered eating, low
self-esteem, impulsive decision making, aggressive impulses, arrests, depression,
and suicidal ideation and suicide attempts. Risk-taking
seems to be increased when the tattoo is obtained at earlier ages.

These associations are not universal, and other studies have not found
evidence of rebellion or deviancy. In the study by Armstrong and associates of college students, the major reason given for piercing was ‘‘uniqueness’’
and to ‘‘be myself, I don’t need to impress anyone anymore.’’ Although studies
in college students have shown that those with tattoos and body piercing
engaged in more risk-taking behaviors, such as sexual activity and substance
use, they are similar to peers without body art in terms of parental education,
positive family relationships, and religious involvement and attitudes. The
study of high school students by Armstrong and Murphy also found that
more than one half of the sample was academically successful with consistent
grades in the A and B range. In the emergency department study by Rooks
and colleagues, there was no difference between subjects with tattoos
and those without them in terms of a presenting complaint of injury, illness,
psychiatric problem, or chemical dependency. Finally, Martin, a child
psychiatrist, illustrated through case vignettes that body decoration and specifically
tattoos frequently can be understood in terms of self-constructive
forms of adornment, rather than as mutilation or destructive.

This highlights a number of other articles that I read as well. Currently, tattoos, piercings, implants and other forms of body modification can be equally seen as symptoms of self-destruction and as self-empowerment. The more extreme forms of optional body modification (tongue bifurcation, penile stelae, &c.) do tend to be more present in maladaptive personalities. Medical body modification (pacemakers, neural stimulators, prosthetic limbs, &c.) while extreme, strengthens self-worth due to the increase in the patient's ability to perform activities of daily life.
 

arcady said:
Humanity loss through cyberware is -NOT- part of the original literary genre.

That might depend on what you call "original" or "part of the genre". Effinger's Marîd Audran series, for example, doesn't have a whole lot of what Shadowrun or Cyberpunk 2020 would call hefty body modifying stuff. However, the main character most definitely does experience a dehumanizing effect as he goes down the route of using the tech that is available.
 

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