(Cydra) Great Conflicts

[the Jester]

Bwwaaahahaha. That's a great trick, Jester, and oh so tasty to turn it back on the players...

Yes, but on the other hand they were very clever to come up with the superior teleport idea, bypassing the inscrutability by not using divination.

 

[Brain]

Yeah, Superior Teleport really helped (even though she was ready for it). We had been having a very hard time finding out anything about the quest for what seemed like a long time. Thank goodness for Mary 9 and the Eyebrarian!

 

[Greybar]

It does seem odd. I mean, wouldn't the Superior Teleport have to have a divination component to find where the target was. It's kinda like epic spells, they have multiple seeds - not necessarily all one school.

 

[the Jester]

It does seem odd. I mean, wouldn't the Superior Teleport have to have a divination component to find where the target was. It's kinda like epic spells, they have multiple seeds - not necessarily all one school.

I gave this a great deal of thought when they came up with it and decided to take a strict interpetation of both superior teleport and Seclaidra's inscrutability ability.

Edit: thus throwing the party a bone.

 

[Greybar]

When in doubt, go by the book. Probably a good call.

 

[Murazor]

When in doubt, go by the book. Probably a good call.

Except of course,the spell isn't in any book. (Not in any that I know, at least). I'm fairly sure it's a Cydra homebrew spell.

By strict interpretation of the rules, it will probably work. And considering the resourcefulness of the players in coming up with this solution, it might also be the correct call to allow it at this time. But personally, I feel that the loophole granted by Superiour Teleport is even more powerful than, for instance, a Discern Location. (It's mostly a combination of Discern Location combined with Greater Teleport)

The *real* trouble, for the PCs at least, is when NPCs start using/abusing this. Also, all normally available protections from Scrying/Divination magic are no longer suitable. This will probably lead to a "Magical Arms Race"*, where there will be a new version of the spells which closes this particular loophole. At least, until the next exception is found. Personally, I think I would say the proper school for Superiour Teleport is probably "Divination [Teleport]". Or you could just houserule that spells can be part of multiple schools at the same time (as per the epic spell seeds).

* [rant] This is something I really don't like, and feel that D&D already gravitates too much towards. I feel blanket immunities for all sorts of things are way too easy to come by. (Deathward/Soulfire vs much of Necromancy, True Seeing vs Illusion, Mind Blank vs Enchantment, Energy Immunity vs Evocation/Conjuration energy spells). Instead of immunity, I think it would be better to grant a bonus on saves.
Fortunately, they are already starting to create countermeasures for some, like Piercing Cold in Frostburn vs Cold Immune (and a Fire version in Sandstorm) [/rant]

 

[hippiejedi2]

More Ranting

With respect to the ranting, the way to get around immunities is to get spells that are more powerful. For instance, to get around Secleidra's inscrutability, we used superior teleport, which like you said is kind of like a spell with aspects from two different schools, but did not violate any rules.

Perhaps a better solution would be lesser and greater versions of immunity type spells like a lesser mind blank. Or spells that attack defensive spells.

Abjuration is a school that specializes in defense, though protections of low level should not be able to easily defeat a spell several levels higher.

 

[Greybar]

I'm not a huge fan of immunities either. I'm thinking that barring some exceptions (fire elementals immune to fire since they're *made* of fire) I'd prefer changing "immune to" to "+10 SV versus".

But Immune is a lot faster to play than keeping track of all of the bonuses to SVs.

For the scry vs. protection, a caster level check is probably a pretty good place to start. If you want to figure caster level + spell level + d20 that might help give the advantage to the higher power spells like Superior Teleport (whatever level that is).

But back to the story and the undead gods!

 

[the Jester]

Perhaps a better solution would be lesser and greater versions of immunity type spells like a lesser mind blank. Or spells that attack defensive spells.

Hmm, can't recall offhand what it's called but I do have a homebrewed 'abjuration dispeller' spell. Just what the doctor ordered!


Edit: ah, here we are- disrupt protections, sor/wiz 5.

 

[cold1s]

Hmm, can't recall offhand what it's called but I do have a homebrewed 'abjuration dispeller' spell. Just what the doctor ordered!


Edit: ah, here we are- disrupt protections, sor/wiz 5.

Ouch, has Horben seen that?!
Another "To do" on the Epic Spell casting action item list...
-W
(As H the MFKG H Focuses in Abjurations)