Cypher System by Monte Cook Games: what do you think about it?

[Aldarc]

He gets close a few times, you can expend an XP to amend the fiction, but ONLY to remove a 'GM Excursion', which is basically a forced obstacle where the GM imposes a consequence, entirely at his discretion and outside player control. I think you can also force a reroll by paying an XP point, again simply allowing the player to UNDO something. When I first looked at the description of the game, I really thought it would inevitably do something modern, but in the end, sadly no.

FWIW, Player Intrusions are now a thing as of the latest iteration of Numenera and the Cypher System.

I agree with much of your criticism @AbdulAlhazred , but I do not think Monte Cook wanted to create a game that was anything like Apocalypse World. When you look at the other games he has developed and the videos where he is running Numenera it's fairly obvious that Monte Cook is very much attached GM storytelling and world building as a central feature of play. I think Cypher is pretty much custom tailored to enable that sort of play in the most seamless way possible. It does it more smoothly than pretty much any game I have come across.

I generally think that this is how Monte Cook and a number of fans of the Cypher System understand the Cypher System as a story-focused game.

My opinions on the Cypher System pretty much match the majority of replies here. It's got enough good ideas that I really, really want to like the game and see it work. But the unfortunate reality once you do more than casually peruse the rulebooks is that it just falls short.

What's even more frustrating for me is that a viable alternative exists. Invisible Sun, also by Monte Cook Games, is clearly inspired by the Cypher System. It includes all the elements that people have said that they like about CS while also solving every single issue with it that people have raised in this thread. It's a true 2e of Cypher, rather than what was released as the 2e of Numenera. It also has the single best XP system that I've ever seen, one that I often adapt to other games ever since I came across IS.

Unfortunately the company seems to be dead set on keeping the game system as a dirty secret that they hide from the gaming community as a whole. Invisible Sun is very, very steeply priced and that paywall stands between Joe Gamer and the single best product that Monte Cook Games has every produced. I will recommend IS to anyone who asks about it, but I also fully understand if anyone doesn't want to take the plunge and risk it.

I would like to see MCG play around with IS or even offer a more stripped down version without elaborate language and terminology. Unfortunately, MCG seems more interested in publishing materials for the Cypher System and some upcoming heist game for Kickstarter.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

FWIW, Player Intrusions are now a thing as of the latest iteration of Numenera and the Cypher System.

Interesting. That would move it a bit beyond 1984's MSHRP at least! I suspect it would still benefit from some additional process around things like exactly what is meant by 'success' on a check. PERSONALLY I would like to see something a bit more 'FitD-like' in terms of something that would govern the structure of conflict a bit more.

Even with Player Intrusions (and I'm assuming they are somewhat analogous to GM intrusions, maybe I'm wrong and there's more to it) there generally needs to be something which governs the valence of a check. In that sense Cypher System in its initial form is on a par with 5e. There's simply no way for a player to know or gauge what the impact of a check will be. Why spend tons of effort on gaining a success when you may be obligated by the GM to make 5 more tough checks to get to your goal? As with 5e and other 'trad' systems, combat is usually an obvious exception where the stakes and obstacles are clearly spelled out, so I'm sure THAT works fine.

But you need something like FitD clocks, 4e SCs, or else a very robust set of process/principles that spells out how things must 'move on now' such as PbtA games have. CS simply lacks that, even with the new rule (I think, correct me if I'm wrong).

I generally think that this is how Monte Cook and a number of fans of the Cypher System understand the Cypher System as a story-focused game.

Right, in terms of plot and overall direction and such, you are attending GM theater, or perhaps at most making suggestions that will be politely heard. Anything else is outside the realm of the game proper.

I would like to see MCG play around with IS or even offer a more stripped down version without elaborate language and terminology. Unfortunately, MCG seems more interested in publishing materials for the Cypher System and some upcoming heist game for Kickstarter.

So, what exactly is different in IS? Player Intrusions? I don't even really know the genre of the game (I haven't really followed MCG that closely).

 

[Gradine]

It works perfectly for a beginner rpg like with No Thank You, Evil.

Numenera is a pretty great setting, and the Cypher mechanics are the best mechanic I've ever seen for single-use "magic" items.

Beyond that though, the PC mechanics are shockingly restricting for such an otherwise open ended system, so I couldn't recommend it

 

[Ghost2020]

What 4e are you referring to?

D&D 4e?
I'm not sure

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

What 4e are you referring to?

D&D 4e?
I'm not sure

If you were responding to me, then probably so, yes.

 

[Aldarc]

Right, in terms of plot and overall direction and such, you are attending GM theater, or perhaps at most making suggestions that will be politely heard. Anything else is outside the realm of the game proper.

Monte Cook is a product of his time as a game designer. He seems fairly rooted in '90s-'00s trad gaming but has an impressive '10s hype machine for his Kickstarter projects.

When I look at the things that I like about Monte Cook as a designer, it tends to be more about the worlds he creates (e.g., Ptolus, Diamond Throne, Numenera, Invisible Sun, etc.) and less about his mechanics.

So, what exactly is different in IS? Player Intrusions? I don't even really know the genre of the game (I haven't really followed MCG that closely).

I don't know it that well, and I have not seen a tutorial that explained the game mechanics properly. From what I gather, it's now a d10 system. But instead of 1-10, it's read as 0-9. Anything with a difficulty of 10+ requires the addition of magic dice, which is hardly out of the ordinary in a game where everyone is a mage. But complications can occur when using the magic die.

Also from what I recall, there is also a different XP and character advancement progression. There are a lot of other variables like the Sorte Deck, but these are the things that I sometimes have difficulty discerning through Cook's commitment to grandiose style over technical clarity in his writing of Invisible Sun.

It works perfectly for a beginner rpg like with No Thank You, Evil.

Numenera is a pretty great setting, and the Cypher mechanics are the best mechanic I've ever seen for single-use "magic" items.

Beyond that though, the PC mechanics are shockingly restricting for such an otherwise open ended system, so I couldn't recommend it

I recall how underwhelmed one of my players was after he went from the character creation of Fate to Numenera.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Monte Cook is a product of his time as a game designer. He seems fairly rooted in '90s-'00s trad gaming but has an impressive '10s hype machine for his Kickstarter projects.

When I look at the things that I like about Monte Cook as a designer, it tends to be more about the worlds he creates (e.g., Ptolus, Diamond Throne, Numenera, Invisible Sun, etc.) and less about his mechanics.

I have missed a lot of it. I recall playing in a game that was set in Ptolus once. It seemed VAST, but otherwise there wasn't so much different from things like City State of the Invincible Overlord, etc.
Reading about Invisible Sun, it sounds like a really ambitious sort of Zelazny-esque kind of thing, or sort of a 'magical Matrix' kind of thing. I'd get kicked in the arse if I paid $100 for a game though, lol.

I don't know it that well, and I have not seen a tutorial that explained the game mechanics properly. From what I gather, it's now a d10 system. But instead of 1-10, it's read as 0-9. Anything with a difficulty of 10+ requires the addition of magic dice, which is hardly out of the ordinary in a game where everyone is a mage. But complications can occur when using the magic die.

Also from what I recall, there is also a different XP and character advancement progression. There are a lot of other variables like the Sorte Deck, but these are the things that I sometimes have difficulty discerning through Cook's commitment to grandiose style over technical clarity in his writing of Invisible Sun.

It seems like an OK style for a setting. Not so sure it works for me in terms of a game. Cypher System seems mostly reasonably clear mechanically.

I recall how underwhelmed one of my players was after he went from the character creation of Fate to Numenera.

 

[Lord Mhoram]

For me, the problem with this game is what is missing. Its written as if the last 20 years of RPG design basically didn't happen... There is no mention of how to make a story unfold and how the players and GM input into it, and no PROCESS for this is described at all.

That is, this game is basically from 1976 in terms of the role of the GM and the players. The GM makes up EVERYTHING that happens. Its her setting, her plot, etc. and the players are going to adventure in it. That was fine as a first cut at RPGing 40+ years ago, but Monte Cook should be able to do better.

I agree with the general description, but that is one of the reasons I love it. The mechanics are for things that the players cannot do - fighting, skill checks, etc. No rules to get in the way of interaction, immersion or story creation - which I and my players do as second nature. I have tried and don't like Fate, PbtA and some other games you mentioned. I much prefer a traditional GM is world and most of the stories, players are characters who impact the story by action as their characters.

In a sense, Cypher came off like a traditional game for people that like a traditional structure, to get close to some of what games like you mentioned offer, without the mechanics, that I, for one, find irritating.

 

[Dragonsbane]

Since people are talking about Cypher in this thread.... someone above in the thread asked for some files I made for Cypher Fantasy, so here is the link:

Cypher System Fantasy Compendium - Monte Cook Games | Cypher System Creator Program | DriveThruRPG.com

Basically, it's all 5E OGL spells, most 5E OGL magical items, and some OGL monsters (and how to do all your own conversions, the formulas used in everything in the book.

If the link is not allowed mods please delete, I don't know if links are allowed as I posted this link one other place.

 

[dougzero]

Having not played this system, but having read the source material for The Strange, my opinion matches most answers here - I love the setting, I like the idea of using stat pools as both health and effort resources, but find the combat, encounter and exploration rules really lacking. The fact that any monster of the same threat level has the same AC, damage, and HP seems way too flat. And given the wildly open description of the setting, I found the sample adventure clunky and lacking in sense or inspiration.

All that said, I like the setting so much that I'm seriously considering running it as a 5E game, and just reskinning D&D monsters to Strange critters, cyphers become single-use magic that the players collect on a regular basis, and making characters for different worlds feels like it would go faster if I just say, "D&D classes, these are the ones available, give me an expertise and we'll call it your sub-class". All my players are very familiar with 5E, so character building this way makes sense to me. I'd really like to use the stat pools, but haven't figured that out yet.

Anyone want to talk me out of this? Does this sound workable?