D&D 3E/3.5 D&D 3.5 ruleset, splitting Dexterity

[Omegaxicor]

I don't know if this has been mentioned (I don't have permission to use the search function it seems)

I was thinking that Dexterity controls dodge and accuracy, does that not strike anyone as two separate abilities, one that commands your ability to aim and hand-to-eye coordination and a separate one for evasion and manoeuvrability.

what do you think?

 

[Alexander123]

No, it doesn't strike me as two abilities.

 

[Mon]

Your description certainly strikes me as two capabilities - Manual dexterity (adroitness in the use of the hands) and agility (quick and nimble in movement).

However...

All of the D&D ability scores encompass at least two capabilities. Just read the descriptions of each ability (here)

So while I agree that Dexterity covers (at least) two different things, I don't think it needs to be split. YMMV - they did split the abilities in the Skills & Powers supplement for 2e so there is some precedent in the game's history. It might even be fun

 

[TanisFrey]

I play both 3.5 D&D and Hackmaster Basic. The two systems take very different views on what your basic ability scores do for a character.

Here are some of the different interpretations that in HMB has that are different form D&D, any edition:

STRENGTH affects you ability to do damage when you hit, it does not help you to hit some one.

INTELLIGENCE affects where you strike, thus you hit more often with a high score here.

WISDOM affects you not missing something, thus it affects your initiative in combat.

DEXTERITY affect how well you strike at an enemy in both missile and melee combat. Someone with high DEX can adjust better their sword in motion and hit you opponent more often.

CONSTITUTION affects only your starting hit points, after that it is a measure of how well you handle pain and endurance.

LOOKS affect only you physical appearance and can others trust you better, it modifies Charisma and starting Honor.

CHARISMA is how likable you are when someone talks to you, thus is affects you starting honor.

HONOR is how well you are playing you character's class, alignment, race and any quirks and flaws you have. High honor has it perks, plus you can burn it to get your character out of a pinch.

 

[nonsi256]

I made this split in my house rules. See if it serves your needs

 

[Tovec]

No one has access to use the Search function, don't feel bad.
Onto the real question.

Yes it may strike you as odd to Think about what DEX really controls, manual dexterity, ability to dodge weapons, etc. But when it comes down to it I find it balances out really well. Trying to come up with another stat, such as Agility, really messes with the calculations. I'm not saying the system is perfect in any sense of the word. I am saying any who have tried to split any of the core 6 ability scores into two different abilities seem to get something missing in the mix. Something seems to be missing in the long run.

It is no different as to why anything else isn't included, or is rolled into something else. I'm sure we could come up with houserules to put honour into CON but it wouldn't really make sense. Similarly, trying to figure out what aspects of DEX go into Agility or remain in DEX are going to mess with your brain.

Fundamentally I think it should remain one ability, just like any other should remain one ability. I would not like to suddenly have to come up with 12 stats at level one because they got split. No Body and Internal Chemistry (CON) scores, Will and Perception (WIS), Force of personality and Looks (CHA), etc.

ps. To nonsi256: No offense, I have read much of your Final Codex of rules and I find them lacking in many of the same ways as the base system. Where the base system excels is not having to re-learn a whole bunch of new stuff, having to convert anything already made for the 3e d20 system and not having to adhere to your interpretation of what the game should look like. While I'm sure your rules work for you and I'm happy about that, I really don't think they will work for everyone, nor do I suggest that you offer them as a remedy to questions like the one the OP asked.

 

[Sekhmet]

STRENGTH affects you ability to do damage when you hit, it does not help you to hit some one.

It's an interesting system. I just wanted to say that I have always interpreted the Str bonus To Hit as being able to bypass armor more easily, not adjusting to strike weaker places.

 

[Corsair]

With most weapons, being stronger means being able to swing the weapon faster, meaning it is harder for people to dodge. Imagine a 6 strength person and a 18 strength person both swinging the same great axe. Obviously this doesn't apply to all weapons, but it certainly isn't outside the realm of plausibility.

 

[Herzog]

No one has access to use the Search function, don't feel bad.

Actually, community supporters do. It's one of the 'payed' features of the forum, as is removing banner ads.

 

[Mon]

ps. To nonsi256: No offense, I have read much of your Final Codex of rules and I find them lacking in many of the same ways as the base system. Where the base system excels is not having to re-learn a whole bunch of new stuff, having to convert anything already made for the 3e d20 system and not having to adhere to your interpretation of what the game should look like. While I'm sure your rules work for you and I'm happy about that, I really don't think they will work for everyone, nor do I suggest that you offer them as a remedy to questions like the one the OP asked.

Why not? The style of his rules mightn't suit your tastes, but they may appeal to others or at least give them some food for thought. His rule splits Dex out into Agility as well, which is precisely what the OP was talking about.