D&D 3E/3.5 D&D 3E Design: The Unbalanced Cleric

What do you call a D&D cleric who can’t heal? A 1st-level 1970s cleric. The original first-level cleric could turn undead but had no spells. Skip Williams says that the original conception of the cleric was sort of a Van Helsing figure, someone who bought the wolvesbane, belladonna, and garlic on the equipment list and who contended with the undead. The original cleric couldn’t cast cure light...

What do you call a D&D cleric who can’t heal? A 1st-level 1970s cleric. The original first-level cleric could turn undead but had no spells. Skip Williams says that the original conception of the cleric was sort of a Van Helsing figure, someone who bought the wolvesbane, belladonna, and garlic on the equipment list and who contended with the undead. The original cleric couldn’t cast cure light wounds or other spells until 2nd level, but they could turn undead at 1st. In terms of combat and spellcasting, clerics were intermediate between the other two classes: fighting-men and magic-users.

Aleena-by-Larry-Elmore_grande.jpg

Aleena the Cleric by Larry Elmore

With AD&D, the cleric’s role as a healer was established from 1st-level on, and they even got bonus spells for high Wisdom scores. They went from having fewer spells than magic-users did to having more. In 2nd Edition, the rules talked about clerics without healing powers, but that sort of cleric was not popular. Someone had to play the cleric, and that meant a cleric who healed party members. The poor cleric had to memorize healing spells, limiting their access to all the other cool spells that clerics have. Some spell levels lacked good healing spells, which was reportedly intentional. Since healing spells pushed out most other spell types, giving clerics no good 2nd-level healing spells meant that they were free to pray for spells that were more fun to cast. For 3rd Ed, we addressed that problem with spontaneous casting, letting clerics swap out any prepared spell for a healing spell of the same level.

One thing we decidedly did not fix in 3E was that somebody had to play the cleric, or something close. In the RPGA’s Living Greyhawk campaign, my barbarian picked up a level of cleric at 2nd level just so I would never again play in a party with no cleric. Then for the next two levels I continued with cleric because I was not a fool. The 3E cleric ended up so unbalanced that at Wizards I gave a presentation to RPG R&D on why it’s more or less impossible to balance the class. To understand why the cleric is hard to balance, it helps to think of the cleric’s opposite, a “berserk” class.

With a “berserk” class, the barbarian-type character deals an oversized amount of damage, which is balanced by damage that the character sometimes deals to allies. The “berserk” is cool to play because it deals lots of damage, and it’s the other players who really pay the cost that balances this benefit. Variants on this idea have appeared a couple times, but I consider this sort of class virtually impossible to balance. For its distinctive feature to be powerful enough to appeal to the player’s sense of power, the damage to allies has to be high enough to annoy the other players. If the “berserk” is fun to play, it’s at the cost of other players’ fun.

The cleric is the opposite of the “berserk.” The cleric’s combat ability is penalized in order to balance its healing capacity. This healing power, however, benefits the rest of the party more than it benefits the cleric itself. Unlike the player who likes playing berserks, the cleric player gives up some of their power in order to benefit the party as a whole. The cleric’s trade-off is something like, “Well, you’re not as combat-worthy as a fighter or wizard, but that drawback is balanced by all the healing you provide to other player characters.” How do you get players to play an altruistic character class like a cleric? How, as game designers, could we make clerics interesting to play when so much of their power benefited other characters instead of making the clerics themselves cool? We never framed the question that clearly to ourselves. Instead, we intuited a balance that seemed right. The answer to the trade-off was to make the cleric pay a small cost in terms of reduced combat abilities for a large benefit in terms of healing. Players would play them because they’re almost as cool as other classes in their own right (small cost), and they offer a significant amount of healing, which makes them valuable (big benefit). What do you get when you give a class a significant benefit and balance it with an marginal penalty? You get a class that’s overpowered.

On the plus side, I’m pretty happy with how the clerics turned out in terms of flavor. The 2E clerics were sort of generic. Since the 2E Player’s Handbook was world-agnostic, the rules for clerics were based on their Spheres of Influence rather than the identities of particular deities. In my personal AD&D experience, I liked playing clerics because one’s connection to a deity and religion gave me plenty of material for how I would roleplay a character. In 3E, the gods of Greyhawk gave default 3E clerics more world flavor than default 2E cleric had. Short descriptions in the Player’s Handbook were all players needed to hang their imaginations on these gods.

The puzzle of the altruistic character class intrigued me, and I came at the concept with two new classes for 13th Age. The occultist is a spellcaster who breaks the laws of space and time to protect allies and to make their attacks more effective. Most of the occultist’s spells are interrupts that get cast on other characters’ turns. For 13th Age Glorantha, I designed the trickster class. Their default attack deals literally no damage, but it sets up allies to hit the target for additional damage. Tricksters also have various ways of drawing bad luck on themselves to benefit other characters. The trickster class is so altruistic and masochistic that it has, I think, only niche appeal. It might be a class that’s more fun to watch being played than to play.

Another issue with the cleric is that it’s impossible to balance classes with mostly per-day abilities (that is, spellcasters) against classes whose abilities are at-will, such as the fighter or rogue. That issue, however, is a topic for another day.
 

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Jonathan Tweet

Jonathan Tweet

D&D 3E, Over the Edge, Everway, Ars Magica, Omega World, Grandmother Fish

Zardnaar

Legend
Fair point. I am about to play my first 5e healer, so I will keep this in mind.

Doing Healing Word though prevents you from casting a spell with your main action though, right? So if you are healing, you're not casting any other spells (other than cantrips iirc). The 4e Healer could throw out a heal and still drop a Daily power in the same round.

The rules say if a bonus action spell has been cast you can only cast a cantrip. If you lead with a normal spell no bonus action spell has been cast yet so you can then cast healing word.
. If you cast healing word first you can only cast a cantrip or do something else with your action.

I liked the 2E priests anyway. 3E the cure was worse than the disease. Same with 4E.

3E cleric wasn't that bad, nightsticks, radiant servant of pelor and persistent spell were the main culprits. And wands of ckw which were not the clerics fault.

5E clerics are good but magical healing us a bit weak outside healing spirit, it's better used as whack a mole and they make better primary casters than ye olde traditional cleric who mixed it up.
 

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Dausuul

Legend
I think the issues of the overpowered cleric were pretty minor if you were looking at just the class in 3e, particularly looking at the Players Handbook.
The 3E cleric is probably my favorite version so far. Maybe it was a little unbalanced, as Mr. Tweet wrote, but I didn't think it was truly broken right out of the gate. But if your DM allowed you to take certain prestige classes (especially the Radiant Servant of Pelor prestige class from "Complete Divine") you could really cheese up your character in a hurry.
Caster cheese in 3E was not the fault of splatbooks (though they certainly did not help). It was quite possible to massively cheese a plain-vanilla PHB cleric (or druid, or wizard) with no more than spell selection and feat picks.

Much like wizards, the path to the Dark Side begins by throwing out the conventional idea about how you "should" play such a character (healing spells for clerics, blasting spells for wizards). Instead, one loads up on stackable buffs, "save-or-lose" spells, battlefield control, and utility magic. Because 3E casters had so many spell slots and no limits on their ability to stack ongoing effects, their power could easily spiral out of control as they went up in level. And on top of that, they could make cheap consumable magic items to supplement their regular slots, using item creation feats... which, again, were plain-vanilla PHB stuff.

I don't blame the designers for this - they were rebuilding the whole system more or less from the ground up, and they did a pretty fair job of balancing the spells they expected people to use. Healbot clerics and blaster wizards are decently balanced in 3E. But there were definitely some lessons learned for 4E and 5E there.
 

DWChancellor

Kobold Enthusiast
I think we are talking about two different things. The difference is what you can do versus how you do it.

In 5e, your background tells you how your character approaches other characters and how they deal with situations.

Now, let's be fair. Backgrounds have features, and these are definitely "whats." The fact that most D&D games devolve into versions of fight-loot-shop-repeat doesn't negate this. Some of these features can be extraordinary in the right circumstances (see: Charlatan feature, second ability).

Also, skill selection isn't a small thing. The ability to mix interesting skill combinations (again something a lot of D&D games sidetrack) can be huge if the game you're running puts skills to the front.
 

DWChancellor

Kobold Enthusiast
Your class (and sometimes your feats) tell you what you can do in those situations. In 5e, that's what I see as generic and restricted to one or two choices.

So, to be clear, you are calling 5E clerics generic because you feel that clerics in 5E are going to look similar, not that clerics looks similar to other classes? I see where you are coming from on this much better if that is what you meant.

I do think that 5E purposefully went this route. Fewer, clearer, cleaner options. Makes the whole game so much more accessible. I don't think it is a coincidence that this design and the massive sales coincided. It also leaves a lot of room to make more flavorful versions in new books and encourage more purchases by leaving archetypes in the core books limited.
 

I kinda like this term over calling it a support class.

Clerics and bards are probably my favorite classes. I love seeing the adventuring party come together as a team, and seeing someone else saved from doom or a failed roll by my spells and abilities is a great feeling.
Yeah. He killed her with a d6+1 magic missile; she had at least. 3d6 hit points so causes me meta game rage!!!
 

Hurin70

Adventurer
The rules say if a bonus action spell has been cast you can only cast a cantrip. If you lead with a normal spell no bonus action spell has been cast yet so you can then cast healing word.
. If you cast healing word first you can only cast a cantrip or do something else with your action.

Interesting. Is that confirmed as RAI? Sounds like a loophole.
 

CleverNickName

Limit Break Dancing
Interesting. Is that confirmed as RAI? Sounds like a loophole.
It's a rule in the Player's Handbook...you can cast 2 spells on your turn, as long as one of them is a cantrip.

That rule is what makes the sorcerer's Quicken Spell metamagic so powerful: you can spend sorcery points to cast any spell as a bonus action, and then follow it up with a cantrip. This can get crazy in a hurry if your campaign allows multiclassing.
 

Superchunk77

Adventurer
So, to be clear, you are calling 5E clerics generic because you feel that clerics in 5E are going to look similar, not that clerics looks similar to other classes? I see where you are coming from on this much better if that is what you meant.

Correct.

I do think that 5E purposefully went this route. Fewer, clearer, cleaner options. Makes the whole game so much more accessible. I don't think it is a coincidence that this design and the massive sales coincided. It also leaves a lot of room to make more flavorful versions in new books and encourage more purchases by leaving archetypes in the core books limited.

I see that and I can respect that direction for the game. I'm a bit more experienced when it comes to RPG's so I don't really want/need this level of simplification. And for the record, if I did play D&D again I would stick with Pathfinder 1e, maybe 2e (still undecided if I like it or not).
 



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