D&D 3E/3.5 D&D 3E Design: The Unbalanced Cleric

What do you call a D&D cleric who can’t heal? A 1st-level 1970s cleric. The original first-level cleric could turn undead but had no spells. Skip Williams says that the original conception of the cleric was sort of a Van Helsing figure, someone who bought the wolvesbane, belladonna, and garlic on the equipment list and who contended with the undead. The original cleric couldn’t cast cure light wounds or other spells until 2nd level, but they could turn undead at 1st. In terms of combat and spellcasting, clerics were intermediate between the other two classes: fighting-men and magic-users.

Aleena-by-Larry-Elmore_grande.jpg

Aleena the Cleric by Larry Elmore

With AD&D, the cleric’s role as a healer was established from 1st-level on, and they even got bonus spells for high Wisdom scores. They went from having fewer spells than magic-users did to having more. In 2nd Edition, the rules talked about clerics without healing powers, but that sort of cleric was not popular. Someone had to play the cleric, and that meant a cleric who healed party members. The poor cleric had to memorize healing spells, limiting their access to all the other cool spells that clerics have. Some spell levels lacked good healing spells, which was reportedly intentional. Since healing spells pushed out most other spell types, giving clerics no good 2nd-level healing spells meant that they were free to pray for spells that were more fun to cast. For 3rd Ed, we addressed that problem with spontaneous casting, letting clerics swap out any prepared spell for a healing spell of the same level.

One thing we decidedly did not fix in 3E was that somebody had to play the cleric, or something close. In the RPGA’s Living Greyhawk campaign, my barbarian picked up a level of cleric at 2nd level just so I would never again play in a party with no cleric. Then for the next two levels I continued with cleric because I was not a fool. The 3E cleric ended up so unbalanced that at Wizards I gave a presentation to RPG R&D on why it’s more or less impossible to balance the class. To understand why the cleric is hard to balance, it helps to think of the cleric’s opposite, a “berserk” class.

With a “berserk” class, the barbarian-type character deals an oversized amount of damage, which is balanced by damage that the character sometimes deals to allies. The “berserk” is cool to play because it deals lots of damage, and it’s the other players who really pay the cost that balances this benefit. Variants on this idea have appeared a couple times, but I consider this sort of class virtually impossible to balance. For its distinctive feature to be powerful enough to appeal to the player’s sense of power, the damage to allies has to be high enough to annoy the other players. If the “berserk” is fun to play, it’s at the cost of other players’ fun.

The cleric is the opposite of the “berserk.” The cleric’s combat ability is penalized in order to balance its healing capacity. This healing power, however, benefits the rest of the party more than it benefits the cleric itself. Unlike the player who likes playing berserks, the cleric player gives up some of their power in order to benefit the party as a whole. The cleric’s trade-off is something like, “Well, you’re not as combat-worthy as a fighter or wizard, but that drawback is balanced by all the healing you provide to other player characters.” How do you get players to play an altruistic character class like a cleric? How, as game designers, could we make clerics interesting to play when so much of their power benefited other characters instead of making the clerics themselves cool? We never framed the question that clearly to ourselves. Instead, we intuited a balance that seemed right. The answer to the trade-off was to make the cleric pay a small cost in terms of reduced combat abilities for a large benefit in terms of healing. Players would play them because they’re almost as cool as other classes in their own right (small cost), and they offer a significant amount of healing, which makes them valuable (big benefit). What do you get when you give a class a significant benefit and balance it with an marginal penalty? You get a class that’s overpowered.

On the plus side, I’m pretty happy with how the clerics turned out in terms of flavor. The 2E clerics were sort of generic. Since the 2E Player’s Handbook was world-agnostic, the rules for clerics were based on their Spheres of Influence rather than the identities of particular deities. In my personal AD&D experience, I liked playing clerics because one’s connection to a deity and religion gave me plenty of material for how I would roleplay a character. In 3E, the gods of Greyhawk gave default 3E clerics more world flavor than default 2E cleric had. Short descriptions in the Player’s Handbook were all players needed to hang their imaginations on these gods.

The puzzle of the altruistic character class intrigued me, and I came at the concept with two new classes for 13th Age. The occultist is a spellcaster who breaks the laws of space and time to protect allies and to make their attacks more effective. Most of the occultist’s spells are interrupts that get cast on other characters’ turns. For 13th Age Glorantha, I designed the trickster class. Their default attack deals literally no damage, but it sets up allies to hit the target for additional damage. Tricksters also have various ways of drawing bad luck on themselves to benefit other characters. The trickster class is so altruistic and masochistic that it has, I think, only niche appeal. It might be a class that’s more fun to watch being played than to play.

Another issue with the cleric is that it’s impossible to balance classes with mostly per-day abilities (that is, spellcasters) against classes whose abilities are at-will, such as the fighter or rogue. That issue, however, is a topic for another day.
 
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Jonathan Tweet

Jonathan Tweet

D&D 3E, Over the Edge, Everway, Ars Magica, Omega World, Grandmother Fish

CleverNickName

Limit Break Dancing
The 3E cleric is probably my favorite version so far. Maybe it was a little unbalanced, as Mr. Tweet wrote, but I didn't think it was truly broken right out of the gate. But if your DM allowed you to take certain prestige classes (especially the Radiant Servant of Pelor prestige class from "Complete Divine") you could really cheese up your character in a hurry.

3rd Edition was my favorite cleric, but that entire edition of the game required a lot of care and attention on the part of the DM. There was a wide open field of game supplements (both official and unofficial) out there, and most of it was unbalanced, incompatible rubbish. I had to police my players constantly, and ban 99% of everything--even "official" stuff. Especially "official" stuff.
 

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But just going retro and returning the cleric to the healbot who often faces the pressure to sacrifice his/her turn for the good of the party, as 5e does, is not really a solution at all imho.

I don’t think that describes our experience with 5e clerics. Healing word + your action is usually the optimal play, even for an expert healer like the life cleric. The 5e cleric is much less of a healbot than previous versions, maybe with the exception of 4e clerics.
 

Anoth

Adventurer
That’s probably why I think the 13th age cleric is the best cleric ever. They are not locked into every spell being a heal spell for someone. There healing surge systems helps with that too. Although I like the 1E spell list best for clerics. These blaster clerics just feel wrong to me. But i prefer to model clerics after Catholicism, rabbis, Buddhist priests, and things like that.
 

Superchunk77

Adventurer
3rd Edition was my favorite cleric, but that entire edition of the game required a lot of care and attention on the part of the DM. There was a wide open field of game supplements (both official and unofficial) out there, and most of it was unbalanced, incompatible rubbish. I had to police my players constantly, and ban 99% of everything--even "official" stuff. Especially "official" stuff.
Very true, but I think it still remains my favorite edition of D&D. It had a tonne of options for players and DM's but involved a good amount of bookkeeping. Some of our most memorable campaigns used 3.5. I've played 4e and 5e, and found both really boring. 5e being too simple and constrained while 4e was just a grindfest.
 

CleverNickName

Limit Break Dancing
Very true, but I think it still remains my favorite edition of D&D. It had a tonne of options for players and DM's but involved a good amount of bookkeeping. Some of our most memorable campaigns used 3.5. I've played 4e and 5e, and found both really boring. 5e being too simple and constrained while 4e was just a grindfest.
Yeah, 4E wasn't my favorite at all. And I don't think that 5e is too simple or constrained, but it is certainly streamlined and that's a good thing as far as I'm concerned. Unfortunately, they had to get rid of a lot of stuff that I liked a lot in order to do that streamlining. There are a lot of 3E elements that I would love to bring back: favored classes, monster templates, racial penalties to ability scores, etc., but that's a topic for another thread.

Since we are talking about clerics in this thread, I wish they hadn't gotten rid of favored weapons and alignment restrictions, and I wish they hadn't mashed Cleric Domains and prestige classes together. I understand why they did; I just wish they hadn't.
 

Anoth

Adventurer
Yeah, 4E wasn't my favorite at all. And I don't think that 5e is too simple or constrained, but it is certainly streamlined and that's a good thing as far as I'm concerned. Unfortunately, they had to get rid of a lot of stuff that I liked a lot in order to do that streamlining. There are a lot of 3E elements that I would love to bring back: favored classes, monster templates, racial penalties to ability scores, etc., but that's a topic for another thread.

Since we are talking about clerics in this thread, I wish they hadn't gotten rid of favored weapons and alignment restrictions, and I wish they hadn't mashed Cleric Domains and prestige classes together. I understand why they did; I just wish they hadn't.

i think the racial penalties are built into the array. But I think they need to get rid of racial adjustments for ability scores and give modifiers based on class. Or just everyone gets a +2 to one ability scores and a +1 to another ability score. I would like to stop seeing classes and race combination being forced as strongly for optimization purposes.
 

TwoSix

Dirty, realism-hating munchkin powergamer
i think the racial penalties are built into the array. But I think they need to get rid of racial adjustments for ability scores and give modifiers based on class. Or just everyone gets a +2 to one ability scores and a +1 to another ability score. I would like to stop seeing classes and race combination being forced as strongly for optimization purposes.
PF2 has (to my mind) the best approach for this; races have bonuses and penalties, but all races have at least one free-floating bonus to any stat. Your class and background also give a combination of fixed and free floating bonuses. Any race and background can start with a high score in the main attribute of the class, but you still preserve the "flavor" of the race.
 

CleverNickName

Limit Break Dancing
It was not my intention to derail the discussion of the cleric class; sorry for pulling focus. The racial ability adjustments should probably be in a different thread.
 

Zaukrie

New Publisher
I'm not sure how I'd balance all this if I was a game designer. I would certainly not like the one battle a day thing, but I also wouldn't want to hand out healing so that there was no danger. I'm not sure I ever had trouble finding a player that wanted to be the healer, though, but maybe I was just lucky that not everyone I played with wanted to do damage and kill stuff all the time.

Are we sure that it is that hard to find people that want to help/heal others in game?
 

Superchunk77

Adventurer
Yeah, 4E wasn't my favorite at all. And I don't think that 5e is too simple or constrained, but it is certainly streamlined and that's a good thing as far as I'm concerned. Unfortunately, they had to get rid of a lot of stuff that I liked a lot in order to do that streamlining. There are a lot of 3E elements that I would love to bring back: favored classes, monster templates, racial penalties to ability scores, etc., but that's a topic for another thread.

Since we are talking about clerics in this thread, I wish they hadn't gotten rid of favored weapons and alignment restrictions, and I wish they hadn't mashed Cleric Domains and prestige classes together. I understand why they did; I just wish they hadn't.
My group used to love clerics in 3.5 but not in later editions. As you said, alignment restrictions and favored weapons were just two of the cool things lost in later editions. Race made a big difference in 3.5, then you had domains to pick and then finally your spell list. 3.5 also had prestige classes for many of the gods, and more generic ones that let you really play the precise character you wanted. We loved all that.

I felt that 5e streamlined far too much. You pick your race, background, then your divine domain, and you're done. Streamlined, yes, but severely limited in choices. You might get to pick a few feats as you play, but otherwise you're stuck with whatever you class/domain gives you. If you had two characters playing clerics in 5e (even from different gods) your only real differentiating feature is your divine domain. Racial differences are minimal as are backgrounds.
 

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