D&D 4E D&D 4E in a non-magical world

[Walker N. Waistz]

I have actually run this before, first you need to say aloud to yourself " Hit point are not a representation of physical damage but an over all willingness to battle" . Once you say and understand this your class selection becomes a bit wider.

Agreed.

Cleric (whether you agree with divine presence or not a cleric as a healer magic or medicine is a must for a medieval campaign) ... Paladin( as with the cleric medieval campaigns are almost defined by religion and templar types)

Not sure I agree. I don't believe medieval Europeans looked to their local priests for miraculous healing; though I am sure they believed Christ and His Apostles performed miracles centuries before, I don't think they expected the same from contemporary clergy. I feel similarly about Paladins. I think I would rather have Warlords and Fighters with religious beliefs (perhaps reinforced by a theme) than Clerics or Paladins as they are in 4E.

Druids animal form could simply be them hiding and letting their pet fight. Stuff like that.

This still intrigues me, but I would love to do it without the druid himself having to "hide."

 

[Shadus]

Though I am intrigued by the idea of "reskinning" the druid as a character with a very active non-magical animal companion. What would be the best way to go about doing this? Which druid class/build is the best to use?

Sentential Druid from HotFK would probably be best here. Most of their attack powers are melee attacks from them or their Animal Companion, But the utilities would need some fixing up.

 

[Breaks]

Thanks for all the input. I think I am leaning towards the following list:

Assassin (Executioner) - Striker
Barbarian (Berserker) - Defender/Striker
Bard (Skald) - Leader
Fighter (Knight) - Defender
Fighter (Slayer) - Striker
Fighter (Weaponmaster) - Defender
Ranger - Striker
Ranger (Hunter) - Controller
Ranger (Scout) - Striker
Rogue (Scoundrel) - Striker
Rogue (Thief) - Striker
Warlord (Marshal) - Leader

Though I am intrigued by the idea of "reskinning" the druid as a character with a very active non-magical animal companion. What would be the best way to go about doing this? Which druid class/build is the best to use?

For the druid re-skinning, you could just have his/her animal companion always share his/her square, like an inactive familiar, and thus be untargetable. That way all the damage is going towards the druid, while either of them can attack (depending on if the attack has the beast form keyword). The beast form power itself could be as simple as the druid telling his bear to attack, vs muzzling it.

 

[CroBob]

Barbarian (Berserker) - Defender/Striker

... Defender? I've only seen a few barbs in action, but I'd presume their inability to mark and generally low defenses, plus powers encouraging general recklessness, would lead to poor tanking abilities. However, I could see a few trading of class abilities between the Barb and Fighter making a great defender.

 

[Breaks]

The berserker is a barbarian subclass in heroes of the feywild that is a hybrid defender/striker. It starts combat with a defender aura and knight-like punishment feature, while maintaining access to barbarian at-will, encounter, and daily powers. If it uses a primal power (pretty much any pre-HotFW barb power, it enters a Berserker Fury, trading it's defender aura, punishment, and 2AC for +1d8/tier damage on their at-wills and MBAs for the rest of the encounter.

It's on this list because it has the martial keyword, but really, any barbarian should be fine in a magic-less setting. Very, very few barbarian powers overplay the primal spirits schtick, favoring the "angry brute with an axe" feel, which is about as far from magic as you can get.

 

[Tony Vargas]

If you were going to run D&D in a world without magic (or at least one where magic is rare and subtle), in a setting something like medieval Western Europe, what classes would you include? Would you just do classes with the martial power source and that's it, or do you think there are ways to sneak the other classes in?

Simply using the Martial classes would be fine. Your players would be short the controller role. Using all the options from MP 1 & 2, the martial classes can pick up some of the controller slack through AEs, grabby Brawlers and the like. The Essentials Hunter Ranger is a controller, but you'd have to strip out it's more overtly magical Primal powers, like Stalkers Mist (one of the few things that sub-class really has going for it).

Two other sub-classes you might consider allowing would be the Skald and Berserker, just strip out their non-martial powers (Which means Berserkers only freak out when bloodied, and you'd have to rule that the at-wills don't gain the Primal keyword).

And, of course, you'd want to switch on 'inherent' bonuses, and retain 'Masterwork' Armor, to keep 'the math' on track.

If you want more 'subtle' magic, you could keep the Arcana and Religion skills and a select list of rituals (less overt ones - no linked portal or anything) and ritual components (possibly more detailed and weird/hard-to-find than expensive) that fit the tone of magic you're going for. Retaining some Alchemy might also be an option. Would-be 'wizards' could use a combination of Arcane knowledge, legerdemain/sleight of hand (Thievery), and rituals - Rogue, possibly with some sort of custom 'Charlatan' theme or background, would probably be the class to use for such a 'Wizard.'

And... what about monsters?

You could restrict yourself to humans and animals. Or you could include less overtly magical monsters, like Orcs, dire wolves, and whatever. Limit yourself to Natural creatures and avoid undead, magical beasts, and constructs.


Another thing you could do is make the natural world distinctly non-magical, but still make it possible to delve into the more-magical Feywild. Fey - and mortals trained in magic - could use magic in the Feywild (swapping out martial powers for arcane or primal), but not in the natural world (where Fey would presumably also get to swap out their un-usable magical powers for martial ones).

 

[Neonchameleon]

Two other sub-classes you might consider allowing would be the Skald and Berserker, just strip out their non-martial powers (Which means Berserkers only freak out when bloodied, and you'd have to rule that the at-wills don't gain the Primal keyword).

Why should a level 1 encounter power like Great Cleave (close burst 1, str vs AC, 1[W]+ Str + 1/target damage) be weeded out? The only reason it doesn't fit the martial source is the one word "Primal". Even a lot of the rages are fine (e.g. Bloodhunt rage giving you a bonus to damage against bloodied targets equal to your con mod). Now the Vengeful Storm Rage that does Lightning damage is another matter entirely.

 

[Tony Vargas]

Why should a level 1 encounter power like Great Cleave (close burst 1, str vs AC, 1[W]+ Str + 1/target damage) be weeded out? The only reason it doesn't fit the martial source is the one word "Primal".

Sure, you could audit the barbarian and bard powers and change to martial those that seem OK to you. I was just suggesting a very simple way to do it.