D&D 5E D&D 5e Post-Mortem

[Zardnaar]

It's been a while but I don't remember it. Some splat book or article?

Tome of Magic and Skills and power's.

Wasn't keywords as advantage but same mechanic.

 

[nevin]

5e has learned a good lesson: Make your game approachable. Avoid unnecessary impediments, as those create quit moments. Aesthetics are very important. The human element is even more important.

It has also fallen prey to easy traps of those lessons. The easiest way to make a game approachable is to make it shallow, because it's easy to learn to play something if there's almost nothing to learn. Avoiding all impediments is easier than avoiding unnecessary ones, but that leads to an experience that you slide into...and slide right back out of. Good aesthetics elevate good mechanics into a great experience, but even great aesthetics can't paper over mechanical problems (at least not forever.) You do, in fact, need real human involvement to bring the game to life--but demanding everything from that human element and throwing them to the wolves with a "you figure it out, you're the DM!" merely exacerbates long-standing issues (dearth of DMs, young DMs learning bad habits, higher rates of group dysfunction because folks don't know what they want or don't know how to get it).

In various important ways, 5e has done good. To say otherwise would be foolish. But to look on what it has done and say, "Welp, job well done boys, let's pack it in" would be equally foolish. We can, and should, expect things to get better.

We've had that every version it's not a trap it's the simple fact that humans are pack animals and only a few want to step up and lead any endeavor. For most it's stressful and unfun to DM. No version ever is going to change that.

 

[Retreater]

And then we reach the DM's side of the table where you are basically left to sink or swim. And the DM needs at least as much support as any player and probably as much as all the players combined. There are almost no tools and ones like the quick monster creation don't wokr, thanks to Weapon Finesse, thrown weapons, and spells in melee the non-legendary monsters are tactically bad when they aren't just hp pinatas, and the playstyles aren't supported.

Eggs-actly!
I'm tired of the "sink or swim" attitude to DMs. The world books we do have are skimpy on content. The adventure modules are largely "meh" at best.
I'd tell WotC that they don't have a game without DMs, but with their new VTT and video games, I guess they don't need us anymore.

 

[payn]

Eggs-actly!
I'm tired of the "sink or swim" attitude to DMs. The world books we do have are skimpy on content. The adventure modules are largely "meh" at best.
I'd tell WotC that they don't have a game without DMs, but with their new VTT and video games, I guess they don't need us anymore.

Sounds like a market opportunity.

 

[Raith5]

I relate with the OPs feelings. I have enjoyed 5e but have done it to death. I am pretty tired of the narrow breath of options in 5e character design - I just wish there were more options: more feats, more useful magical items and gear. I really hope that 5.5e revision comes up with something new. It needs more that just a fresh coat of paint.

I also think that a fair bit of my problems with 5e is the adventures. We play exclusively with WoTC adventures and while they are not all awful, I find them pretty weak both at the overarching story and some pretty uninteresting encounters. While I do think there is a problem with 5e monster design (as per them being just bags of hp compared with 4e), I feel that this problem is greatly amplified about how few encounters in WoTC adventures have stakes other than killing the enemies.

I am lucky that I play games other than D&D but D&D is my preferred game. My 5e group is not ready to move beyond 5e so it looks like I am going to DM for the first time in 20 years. Hopefully that can liven things up.

 

[payn]

I relate with the OPs feelings. I have enjoyed 5e but have done it to death. I am pretty tired of the narrow breath of options in 5e character design - I just wish there were more options: more feats, more useful magical items and gear. I really hope that 5.5e revision comes up with something new. It needs more that just a fresh coat of paint.

I also think that a fair bit of my problems with 5e is the adventures. We play exclusively with WoTC adventures and while they are not all awful, I find them pretty weak both at the overarching story and some pretty uninteresting encounters. While I do think there is a problem with 5e monster design (as per them being just bags of hp compared with 4e), I feel that this problem is greatly amplified about how few encounters in WoTC adventures have stakes other than killing the enemies.

I am lucky that I play games other than D&D but D&D is my preferred game. My 5e group is not ready to move beyond 5e so it looks like I am going to DM for the first time in 20 years. Hopefully that can liven things up.

Have you looked at Level Up?

 

[MockingBird]

Just curious, what are we missing on the DM side of things? I've seen multiple people comment there's no DM support. I'm definitely not saying anyone is wrong, I personally just haven't run into any issues yet.

 

[MuhVerisimilitude]

Just curious, what are we missing on the DM side of things? I've seen multiple people comment there's no DM support. I'm definitely not saying anyone is wrong, I personally just haven't run into any issues yet.

The CR system is completely out of whack. Many monsters are really really boring. Compare an average monster in the PF2 bestiaries to any random equivalent type monster in the monster manual. I've also heard said that the official adventures are badly written and structured, but I haven't run any so I can't say.

Personally D&D 5e is "fine", but it has some issues with long term playability.

 

[Oofta]

Sounds like a market opportunity.

If only there were a place to post PDFs just for DMs to use. Let just about anyone post to it with documents to add details or whole campaigns. Call it something fake old-timey like a Guild for DMs or something. If only there were such a thing.

 

[Oofta]

Just curious, what are we missing on the DM side of things? I've seen multiple people comment there's no DM support. I'm definitely not saying anyone is wrong, I personally just haven't run into any issues yet.

The DMG is the book that needs the most reorganizing. Update the sequence things are presented in with running the game first, more details on building custom monsters, etc.. All things they've talked about for the 2024 edition.

Some people want monster-sized campaign setting books, I'm not sure there's really much of a market or even much of a need for those. All of the old books are available in PDF form and if all you're looking for is lore it's still there. I can't speak much to modules because I've always (outside of public play) run my own home campaign.