D&D Advertising & D&D Lite

[Corinth]

That's one audience, certainly. Maybe the Zulkir can confirm if that is what WOTC considers as its target audience. I seem to recall the target being a slightly younger age group than that.

Dancey confirmed it in 2000, and it's been WOTC policy since then.

Certainly there is a lot of D&D being played on middle & high school campuses. And I'd bet that there are more D&D players over the age of 22 than under.

But the point is that the vast majority of players pick up the game in college. Fewer adopt before--and most drop off in high school only to return in college (WOTC survey pointed this out)--and few adopt after. The data gathered after D&D3e came out hasn't changed these findings.

 

[cbatt]

Interesting conversation going on here, but some possibilities seem to have been overlooked:

De-emphasizing "Dungeons and Dragons" and putting the marketing muscle behind the "d20" system and "d20 Modern". The d20 system is growing far beyond the roots of DnD and though Dungeons and Dragons has a lot of mindshare, much of that mindshare is negative (geek, nerd, loser negative rather than cool, rebellious, "vile" negative like back in the early 80s... heh)

Forget about DnD Lite/Light. Complexities have a way of becoming easy to grasp if those involved can easily relate to the actions/tasks that the rules are meant to handle. A modern setting with modern action is going to be much easier for new people, including kids, to quickly grasp and more importantly "visualize." Promote d20 Modern for all its worth!

As much as I like Swords and Sorcery, I realize that the majority of people don't. They read Tom Clancy and Danielle Steele. They watch Jackie Chan movies and sitcoms about neurotic psychiatrists. The only "fantasy" they probably know anything about is Lord of the Rings, and that is mainly through the movie or through weed addled memories of their college days. Kids these days are into "Final Fantasy" and RPGs are video games; the best of which are from Japanese developers and bear little, if any resemblance to what we consider "fantasy" or RPGs.

Quite simply, the number of people who can relate to DnD (not just know the name, but "get" what it's about) is shrinking, not growing. Don't waste time promoting it.

 

[X-ray Crossbow]

I agree. We should push the D20 system, not just D&D.

With all the different ways you can play D20--Call of Cthulhu, Star Wars, Spycraft, Dungeons and Dragons, and D20 Modern-- psionics-only, modern magic, straight reality or something, there's content for everyone.
There's some of every genre--horror, classic fantasy, Bondish spy capers, space opera, and with the versatility of D20 Modern, mysteries, westerns, 20's gangsters, you've got a lot of tastes to be able to satisfy. That means you can get lots more people than just with D&D.

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

I agree. We should push the D20 system, not just D&D.

Well, maybe.

The downside of that is that you're throwing away established brand recognition (someone quoted 90% recognition for the D&D brand) in favor of a virtually unknown brand, d20.

Building brand recognition is expensive, and takes a long time. I suspect you're more likely to be successful selling D&D and branching to d20 than the other way around.

Why not repackage d20 as a D&D brand? It sounds silly -- D&D Modern, D&D Horror, etc -- but it would capitalize on name recognition with people who don't know anything about RPGs.

 

[Arnwyn]

I agree. We should push the D20 system, not just D&D.

But I would suspect WotC wouldn't. If they were to put resources towards promoting the game, it would be D&D and not d20.

What baffles me, actually, is why D&D game info is not in the back of the WotC novels. For the love of pete, you'd think that would be a ready market. Now, I'm pretty sure WotC did some market research there, but I'm not privy to the results. But I submit that a lot of WotC novel readers (e.g. those that read the Drizzt novels) are not D&D players. [I know a bunch of current and previous co-workers who fit that bill, but that is not necessarily indicative of the market as a whole.]

By putting game statistics of that novel (NPCs, main character stats, magic items, spells, new feats) in the back of the novel, and then directing the reader to the PHB (with a little picture of the PHB's cover), I would suspect that many novel readers would at least have their interest piqued. The info in the back of the novels would make it easy for them to know what to get, as well as give them "instant information" about the game (and especially about the book that they just finished enjoying).

It wouldn't have to be a lot - a bunch of NPC and main character stats, a new spell, a new magic item, and maybe a new feat - possibly 4 novel-pages worth. Readers would be intrigued at actual "further info" at the characters they really liked from the novel, and maybe that interest would be translated into a PHB sale.

[I remember that D&D stats were in the older Dragonlance novel "Second Generation". I wonder how that translated to sales of game products? My guess is that TSR wasn't tracking such statistics at the time.]

 

[Zaruthustran]

*shrug* The idea of handing out information in theatres is fine by me, as I stated previously.
Your example of how to implement the idea has flaws, which I have pointed out.

"D&D art is sexist!" is involved in the discussion, although peripherally in this case. I notice that you didn't use "Hennet" with "Mialee" in your example. They are a better match IMNSHO given that both those iconics seem to have been hit by a 'fashion disaster elemental' at some point. [Or are escaped workers from Club Super-Sexe located on Ste. Catherine.]

Costumed characters (tastefully dressed or not) are effective in attracting attention--people notice other people who are dressed out of the ordinary. That said, the ideas in my first post were intended as general courses of action, not specific plans. Indeed, the Mialee example (including her silly costuming choice) was a backhanded swipe at gamer art. Or, more specifically, 3E's crummy artistic style.

My point is that the LotR and Harry films are wonderful opportunities to contact an audience that is pre-qualified: the audience is demonstrably interested in fantasy entertainment.

My primary point was: Don't piss off the women.
My secondary point was: Aim to impress.

I wholeheartedly share these points, of course.

Oh and by the way. Do not MISQUOTE me. This is truly bad form and manners, which does nothing for the credibility of your arguements[sic]. Get it right, or don't quote.

Editing or summarizing another's post for brevity are common practices on this and every other informal message board on the Internet. I will certainly continue these practices.

And FYI, dictating actions to others is a sure-fire way to earn enemies--and an almost sure-fire way to start (yet another useless) message board flame war.

-z

 

[Telgian]

Zaruthustran:
*shrug*
Be well.