D&D General D&D Archetypes that spread out to other settings and media

[Not a Decepticon]

I am confused at your resistance to this basic, obvious thing. Why don't you show us before and after and explain why you think D&D specifically created the "sword and board" fighter.

It's just a combination of a) I don't see anything that could be called as a definite source of inspiration predating D&D in a way that, say, Conan is an inspiration for Barbarian Hero archetype and without it I cannot really eliminate a possibility d&d may have codified the modern image of "sword & board fighter" from various preexisting sources and b) it kinda feels to me like this thread is turning into "if we can name a single example older than D&D, D&D gets no credit for influencing popculture here" with no nuance or acknowledgment of the idea of, to use tvtropes terms, trope codifiers. See also discussion about the Lich.

 

[Tonguez]

It's just a combination of a) I don't see anything that could be called as a definite source of inspiration predating D&D in a way that, say, Conan is an inspiration for Barbarian Hero archetype and without it I cannot really eliminate a possibility d&d may have codified the modern image of "sword & board fighter" from various preexisting sources and b) it kinda feels to me like this thread is turning into "if we can name a single example older than D&D, D&D gets no credit for influencing popculture here" with no nuance or acknowledgment of the idea of, to use tvtropes terms, trope codifiers. See also discussion about the Lich.

Thats because DnD is literally a chop suey of folklore and literary tropes, D&D didn’t create the ingredients of fantasy, it created the cooking system, labelled and measured the tropes, then handed out a cookbook, that lets the players supply the sauce and cook it to their own taste. The result is always recognisable, but never the same meal twice.

 

[Misanthrope Prime]

It's just a combination of a) I don't see anything that could be called as a definite source of inspiration predating D&D in a way that, say, Conan is an inspiration for Barbarian Hero archetype and without it I cannot really eliminate a possibility d&d may have codified the modern image of "sword & board fighter" from various preexisting sources and b) it kinda feels to me like this thread is turning into "if we can name a single example older than D&D, D&D gets no credit for influencing popculture here" with no nuance or acknowledgment of the idea of, to use tvtropes terms, trope codifiers. See also discussion about the Lich.

You've presented no evidence that your purported "trope codifier" has codified jack. There are far more counterexamples than examples.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Conan is an inspiration for Barbarian Hero archetype

Interesting thing about Conan is the 2H sword comes from the cover art and the movies. In the original novels his sword is sometimes described as a scimitar if it’s described at all, he sometimes wears armour, and sometimes uses a shield.

But the reason you can’t find a “definitive” source it’s its too old and too common. I think perhaps your issue is that by the 80s movies thought it was old hat and not cool enough, but if you watch any period movie or TV from the 50s or 60s, from The Court Jester to Henry V to The Vikings, you can see where this, and a lot of other D&D tropes came from.

Oh, and sword and board fighters from pre-D&D fantasy literature: Thorin Oakenshield, Eowyn, Peter Pevensie.

 

[Willie the Duck]

b) it kinda feels to me like this thread is turning into "if we can name a single example older than D&D, D&D gets no credit for influencing popculture here" with no nuance or acknowledgment of the idea of, to use tvtropes terms, trope codifiers.

I think you might just be feeling ganged up upon. This framing here where you are treating massively multiple people (who I know you know do not work in coordination) as being a 'we' working in a group kinda suggest a self-referential perspective on the matter.

People aren't looking for a single counterexample, they are each contributing their idea and suggestion towards the overall mass of examples which predate D&D's influence. A mass that I think now is approaching a couple dozen.

Look, those of us that predate D&D or are familiar with media that predates D&D know darn well that 'old timey guy with sword and shield' was at least as well-represented in art and media as any other medieval martial depiction. Did D&D lean into this? Certainly. I'm sure if we go through the artwork for oD&D-AD&D era books and magazines, S&B will dwarf polearms or bows or most anything except maybe two-hander swords or guys with spears (which showed up a lot more in art than in play, given the stats they kept giving spears). People aren't treating that as germane to the thread topic because it neither started with D&D, nor was specifically amplified by it -- D&D just had and used it.

 

[tetrasodium]

Pretty sure this artwork of sword & shield equipped folks predates gygax by centuries. This impressive statue of Sir William Wallace too.

Sword & shield looks impressive, is easy to depict, and they each convey a lot about the person with them (authority strength intelligence protection security etc).

 

[Reynard]

I don't think anyone is suggesting that D&D did not impact the aesthetics of fantasy. Especially during the paperback era, D&D's art has always had a profound impact on what the fantasy bookshelf looked like, as well as what computer and video game fantasy looked like. It's just that D&D did not invent, well, much of anything. It has always hoovered up tropes, churned them, and spat them back out D&Dified.