OGL D&D Beyond Cancellations Changed WotCs Plans

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Gizmodo has revealed that the partial OGL v1.1 walkback yesterday was in response to the fan campaign to cancel D&D Beyond subscriptions, with "five digits" worth of cancellations. However, the site also reveals that management at the company believed that fans were overreating and that it would all be forgotten in a few months.

In order to delete a D&D Beyond account entirely, users are funneled into a support system that asks them to submit tickets to be handled by customer service: Sources from inside Wizards of the Coast confirm that earlier this week there were “five digits” worth of complaining tickets in the system. Both moderation and internal management of the issues have been “a mess,” they said, partially due to the fact that WotC has recently downsized the D&D Beyond support team.

Yesterday's walkback removed the royalties from the license, but still 'de-authorized' the OGL v1.0a, something which may or may not be legally possible, depending on who you ask.

 
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In point of fact, they have walked exactly nothing back, only claimed to have done so. We shall see how much they have truly walked back when they present a new draft of the OGL (or one gets leaked)
we can only go by what they tell us and what is leaked... they said no fees or % so that is what we know. Someone leaked they are giving 6 months instead of a week (still not what I would want but better)

If we say that the leaks and statements don't count then there is NOTHING to walk back. We only have leaks and statements
 

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You almost got it, but not quite so let me finish "threading the needle" for you. Wizbro is using using the façade, the false platitudes, of trying to protect against NFTs, blockchains, homophobia, racism, etc... to blunt criticism of their attempts to de-authorize OGL 1.0a & make it more palatable to the some of the dissenters at large. To me you're acting like it sounds as though you've wholeheartedly swallowed their maladroit, ham-fisted attempts "hook, line & sinker". Congratulations!
Here is the thing... you can (like I have) say "That's great, we like this little bit" but ALSO still say "But we DON'T want this"

When you complain you can have nuance.
 

However I don't care WHY they are fighting hate speech, I care that I WANT THEM to.
The fact that you're arguing as corporate association-policing is the same as "fighting hate speech" shows either bad faith or an ill-considered argument, frankly.
if they have no ability to do so they can't do anything about it... I would rather let them stop some of it by putting out a boiler plate "You don't get to hide behind the OGL and we will sue you" then saying "it's fine the market will decide"
That's FUD on your part, because it's not a real thing that's happened nor is likely to happen, because already:

Drivethru
DM's Guild
Kickstarter

Have actual PRE-OFFENCE rules against hate speech. Note a vague POST-OFFENCE excuse to take down whatever because MADD complained about it a lot or what have you.
And that is not a reason to let hate speech run free.
FUD again. You're definitely making a bad faith argument because you keep engaging in FUD.

As I said, all the major platforms to sell content on already do a PRE-OFFENCE approach to this. WotC's POST-OFFENCE thing offers no value and isn't helping at all, except as propaganda for them and their OGL.
 

The fact that you're arguing as corporate association-policing is the same as "fighting hate speech" shows either bad faith or an ill-considered argument, frankly.
knock it off... this whole "bad faith argument" is the same as calling someone a lier... if you disagree disagree. DOn't insult and make it personal.
That's FUD on your part, because it's not a real thing that's happened nor is likely to happen, because already:
It is NOT FUD...it is my thoughts and opinions, ones that as long as I am on enworld I am supposed to be able to post without having my personal integrity attacked and without people claiming that I am lieing about what i have been transparent about.
Drivethru
DM's Guild
Kickstarter

Have actual PRE-OFFENCE rules against hate speech. Note a vague POST-OFFENCE excuse to take down whatever because MADD complained about it a lot or what have you.
so wait, you are okay with SOME companies having rules against it but not others... I recently found out that the Cypher system has the same clause.
FUD again. You're definitely making a bad faith argument because you keep engaging in FUD.
I am not engageing in FUD... I am in good faith trying to explain how I feel and you are instead making this personal.
As I said, all the major platforms to sell content on already do a PRE-OFFENCE approach to this. WotC's POST-OFFENCE thing offers no value and isn't helping at all, except as propaganda for them and their OGL.
If it's already handled in your mind and it's just a 'ribbon' why argue against it? this entire argument could end with you saying "I don't like the rest but I agree trying to stop hate speech is better then not trying to stop hate speech"
 

I think that WotC is trying to save face after like 300 rakes in the yard smacked them... However I don't care WHY they are fighting hate speech, I care that I WANT THEM to.
Such as a company that puts out a race of former slave space monkeys? Or a race of All The Worst Gypsy Stereotypes?
Or for years had cards illustrated by actual Neo-Nazis?
Or turfed out a PoC designer when they blew the whistle on a culture of insensitivity and callous disregard for the input of minority freelancers on their staff?

Oh, wait...

No, I don't think I trust WotC to be the sole arbiter of what content is hateful enough to unilaterally yank from publication.

if they have no ability to do so they can't do anything about it... I would rather let them stop some of it by putting out a boiler plate "You don't get to hide behind the OGL and we will sue you" then saying "it's fine the market will decide"

Except that the OGL, as it stands right now, does, in fact, allow WotC this very power they claim they want to exert. Why are the tools they already have not good enough for this task?

And that is not a reason to let hate speech run free. That is a reason to pay attention and keep your opinions out there for these companies to see and feel

Curious. I don't remember there being a whole lot of hateful content on the DMSGuild up to this point. Did I miss the secret racist section that was doing so well as to cause WotC to get the vapors?

we can only go by what they tell us and what is leaked... they said no fees or % so that is what we know. Someone leaked they are giving 6 months instead of a week (still not what I would want but better)

If we say that the leaks and statements don't count then there is NOTHING to walk back. We only have leaks and statements

Their public-facing communication has been filled with verifiable lies, probable lies, revisionist history that runs counter to other reports, and passive-aggressive uWu-ified language. Forgive me if I don't hold their public word in high esteem right now.
 

If it's already handled in your mind and it's just a 'ribbon' why argue against it? this entire argument could end with you saying "I don't like the rest but I agree trying to stop hate speech is better then not trying to stop hate speech"
Because it's largely there for the sake of propaganda.

There is no realistic situation, right now, where the OGL 1.0a "allows hate speech" in any meaningful fashion, because you would simply not be able to meaningfully distribute a product. If WotC was offering to screen products BEFORE they went out, rather than just to respond to pressure after the fact, it might be a bit different. It would only be 99% pointless instead of 100% pointless. But they're not.

WotC's bit in the OGL 1.1/2.0 offers no benefit. It's like opening an umbrella inside the house.

So you acting like striding around your living with am umbrella up because it's raining outside is a good thing is pretty ridiculous.

Also WotC themselves are the MAIN PERPETRATORS of racism/hate speech in 5E products lol, which is really funny and you haven't addressed. This is particularly bad as they're thus more likely to response to something like an MADD-type campaign, because they're clearly idiots.
 



overgeeked

B/X Known World
Such as a company that puts out a race of former slave space monkeys? Or a race of All The Worst Gypsy Stereotypes?
Or for years had cards illustrated by actual Neo-Nazis?
Or turfed out a PoC designer when they blew the whistle on a culture of insensitivity and callous disregard for the input of minority freelancers on their staff?

Oh, wait...

No, I don't think I trust WotC to be the sole arbiter of what content is hateful enough to unilaterally yank from publication.

Except that the OGL, as it stands right now, does, in fact, allow WotC this very power they claim they want to exert. Why are the tools they already have not good enough for this task?

Curious. I don't remember there being a whole lot of hateful content on the DMSGuild up to this point. Did I miss the secret racist section that was doing so well as to cause WotC to get the vapors?

Their public-facing communication has been filled with verifiable lies, probable lies, revisionist history that runs counter to other reports, and passive-aggressive uWu-ified language. Forgive me if I don't hold their public word in high esteem right now.
You are 100% right. But by now you must realize you’re wasting your breath.
 


I say this in all seriousness, are you a native English speaker? It seems like a lot of obvious, self-evident things are zooming right over your head, but language barriers would be a logical explanation.
This again seems to be a personal attack again.

I was born and raised in New England of the United States (that is the north east of the states) and have lived in 3 states over the years each in different parts of this country.

I don't know what "obcious, self-evident things" are zooming over me... I think you just disagree but instead of disagreeing you are insulting.
 



You mean the leaks which have universally alleged that WotC has acted in bad faith, is acting in bad faith, and will continue to act in bad faith if they can get away with it? Those leaks?
yeah, including the 'new' 2.0 ogl that has some but not all of the things changed. I think I referenced it many times now.
 

yeah, including the 'new' 2.0 ogl that has some but not all of the things changed. I think I referenced it many times now.
Is that the one that came out before they skipped the livestream and put out their weaksauce nonapology?

YOU WON BUT WE WON TOO UwU! is going to live in infamy for bloody decades lol. Has there ever been more of a not-crying-mask Wojak situation in D&D history?

View attachment 272935

Not that I can recall at the moment. :LOL:
 


JEB

Legend
They'll raise the prices of print books too, in keeping with their lifestyle/brand focus.
I assume a hybrid approach is the plan:
a) keep $50 books while increasing font sizes, reducing page count, and reducing the amount of actual content within them (a trend that already began with Tasha's).
b) Boxed sets like Spelljammer that allow them to sell even less content at a premium price.

It's completely possible both strands will just get more expensive on top of that, of course.
 

ValamirCleaver

Jäger aus Kurpfalz
This again seems to be a personal attack again. I was born and raised in New England of the United States (that is the north east of the states) and have lived in 3 states over the years each in different parts of this country. I don't know what "obcious, self-evident things" are zooming over me... I think you just disagree but instead of disagreeing you are insulting.
In that case I'm going back to my previous assumption of ignorance (willful or otherwise) and/or falsehood. I see no further reason to attempt to engage you in rational debate. I hope you're successful in relying upon Wizbro to shield you from any & all forms of NFTs, blockchains, racism, homophobia & any other -isms or -phobias...
 
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JEB

Legend
Once an edition is dead? Yes. It's free money, essentially.
I agree it's possible we'll see 5E PDFs once 1D&D is out, but it's also just as likely (if not more so) that we'll never see another PDF release again, and they'll just expect you to pick up a top-tier DDB subscription if you want out of print 5E material. Note that content that once would have been a PDF on Wizards' site or on DM Guild, like the Dragonlance monster compendium, is now fully online DDB content...
 

In that case I'm going back to my previous assumption ignorance (willful or otherwise)
insults
and/or falsehood.
more insults.. got it
I seen no further reason to attempt to engage you in rational debate.
what debate? We disagree on something, you are trying to get me to support an argument that isn't my own, and then changed to insults.

There is no facts to argue or dispute, you either want the rider or don't... we are not even sure they CAN change it in any meaningful way.

What is there to debate?
I hope you're successful in relying upon Wizbro to shield you from any & all forms of NFTs, blockchains, racism, homophobia & and any other -isms or -phobias...
and I hope you learn to talk to people without being insulting
 

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