D&D General D&D Combat is fictionless

[Maxperson]

I'm not sure if that is clear! In a way, our complaint is that initiative shouldn't trump grid, and we are vexed because initiative does sometimes trump grid. If we said that our picture of the world includes both grid (precise, definite) and initiative (uncertain), then we may be open to any fiction that emerges. As I think you alluded to, we might have to gloss over some rough edges, but our brain does that for us all the time. It's part of why suspension of disbelief is so important. A viable way to solve @FrogReaver's problem may be simply to adjust our expectations so that we don't feel jarred out of SoD by initiative telling us something different, than grid alone.

I've thought about making every 5 feet of movement lower your initiative by 1 for the round, so if a monster goes on 18 and has to move 40 feet to attack the fighter, it's going to attack on 10, but that just complicates things and slows down combat as numbers get adjusted and different people get to move and do stuff. It's better just to accept the borked system as the necessity it is and have fun anyway.

 

[clearstream]

This here is the entire problem. It's IMPOSSIBLE under those circumstances for that to happen in any sort of realistic combat system.

Why is it impossible? Is there no possible world where the orcs might have got there first? What if he stumbled?

 

[Maxperson]

Why is it impossible? Is there no possible world where the orcs might have got there first? What if he stumbled?

Remember, we're talking about D&D combat here. Stumbling doesn't happen unless something makes it happen. The rules are just that he moves X feet. Even if he did stumble, it would be after he was moving, not before he could take a step.

 

[clearstream]

I've thought about making every 5 feet of movement lower your initiative by 1 for the round, so if a monster goes on 18 and has to move 40 feet to attack the fighter, it's going to attack on 10, but that just complicates things and slows down combat as numbers get adjusted and different people get to move and do stuff. It's better just to accept the borked system as the necessity it is and have fun anyway.

It's a nice direction for thought! One problem I keep hitting, is that in play more fluid combat adds a lot of decisions and tracking. It's okay for one orc and one fighter. Not so much for a party of four against several foes that aren't all carbon-copies.

I'm with you on accepting the system as the necessity. I don't think of it as "borked" because it is a reasonably good solution, even if not so good a simulation.

 

[clearstream]

Remember, we're talking about D&D combat here. Stumbling doesn't happen unless something makes it happen. The rules are just that he moves X feet. Even if he did stumble, it would be after he was moving, not before he could take a step.

My thought was - having rolled lower initiative what seems to be represented is that something prevented him winning the race to the door. Getting a lower initiative can be taken to represent a fact about the world, just as much as his grid position. Albeit better narrated with language around reasons for being slower.

Player: I want to race for the door without hesitation. Rolls badly on initiative.
DM: (Correctly avoiding telling player that they in fact did not intend to race to the door without hesitation.) Ugh, you stumble slightly and the orcs race pass you.

[EDIT As I see it, the something that made it happen is that the orcs rolled high on initiative. Just as an orc rolling high on an attack can make a hit happen, and subsequently damage.]

 

[Maxperson]

It's a nice direction for thought! One problem I keep hitting, is that in play more fluid combat adds a lot of decisions and tracking. It's okay for one orc and one fighter. Not so much for a party of four against several foes that aren't all carbon-copies.

Yep. Which is why I said it slows down combat and complicates things.

The slowdown and complication outweigh the increase in combat realism for me.

I'm with you on accepting the system as the necessity. I don't think of it as "borked" because it is a reasonably good solution, even if not so good a simulation.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one

 

[Warpiglet-7]

It's a nice direction for thought! One problem I keep hitting, is that in play more fluid combat adds a lot of decisions and tracking. It's okay for one orc and one fighter. Not so much for a party of four against several foes that aren't all carbon-copies.

I'm with you on accepting the system as the necessity. I don't think of it as "borked" because it is a reasonably good solution, even if not so good a simulation.

I just think of what would increase fun if for some reason I needed a change. I really don’t see this mapping well on any reality.

but then I think about more tactics but still quickly played.

I could see stating an action after secretly writing it down) and taking half if it in initiate order. Then again in initiate order take the second part.

it might allow for saving movement and attack for fluid unpredicted changes. I am not sure but might test it.

given the law if lazy, I am. More like to roll d20, hit it with sword and play raw.

plenty of high fives and excitement either way

 

[Maxperson]

My thought was - having rolled lower initiative what seems to be represented is that something prevented him winning the race to the door. Getting a lower initiative can be taken to represent a fact about the world, just as much as his grid position. Albeit better narrated with language around reasons for being slower.

With initiative numbers matter. If someone was going on 20 and the other on 1, I could see stumbling or something allowing a one sided situation. That's why I described the fighter as losing initiative by only 1. That's just a fraction slower.

If the numbers don't matter, you can get a situation where the monsters go on 15, run 60 feet to the door, then the fighter who stumbled goes on 14 and heads to the door, then the cleric who rolled a 13 and fell over completely gets to go 30 feet, followed by the rogue who passed out for a moment, and lastly the wizard who I guess took a nap while waiting for 12 to come along.

 

[Umbran]

I mean, the fighter’s player is free to move towards the door if they want to.

So, depending on what happened the round before, and how the GM interprets things: Ready a move to the door if the orcs remain in the room.

I am also trying to figure out how this situation arises that they are so situated, with the orcs having initiative, hadn't already caught the fighter, but the fighter didn't leave the room the round before when he had the chance.

 

[Charlaquin]

So, depending on what happened the round before, and how the GM interprets things: Ready a move to the door if the orcs remain in the room.

I am also trying to figure out how this situation arises that they are so situated, with the orcs having initiative, hadn't already caught the fighter, but the fighter didn't leave the room the round before when he had the chance.

Unless I misunderstood Maxperson’s example, I don’t believe their was a round before.