D&D Computer Games

[Kae'Yoss]

In some ways the movies without the baggage of a built in fan base may be the easiest to make. Imagine how hard it would be for someone to make a critically acclaimed movie based on the Star Wars Universe at this time.

No problem. Just make them better than Episode I - III, and people will always say "Well, they didn't reach the original movies, but at least they weren't as horrible as those other movies!"

 

[Festivus]

No computer game will ever be able to replace D&D in all its glory. But if your gaming party is not available, NWN is the next best thing. No WoW or ToeE or BG ever came as close to the real D&D experience as NWN.

Had you ever tried to play in a DMed NWN1 game? There is a HUGE difference when you have an experienced DM running the NPCs. At one time there was a huge collection of games you could get in on (www.neverwinterconnections.com).

If you want an idea of what NWN1 is capable of, go to NWVault.com and look for the DM101 module. It's very well done and shows you the basics of NPC control and some of the powers of the DM client.

NWN2's DM client pales in comparison, but I have hope that someday it will catch up.
[/QUOTE]

 

[Steel_Wind]

Not if it is optional. NWN2's is optional, you can still make one single character and play with others on some module or persistant world.



Huh? Let them bitch. No one's putting a gun to their heads to play with others.

Just for the record, much of the technical design that supported multiplayer in NWN1 and 2 inherently limited and restricted the game from doing those things designers wanted to be able to do.

Cutscenes, spell effects, animation hooks, some quest designs, - the list is extensive, let me assure you. The limiting factor in all of these design restrictions was its inability to be properly supported on multiple machines of differing computing power in multiplayer mode.

When it came to cutscenes, in particular, this restricted the desginer's ability to tell a story or to make the game code work in ways that could otherwise be supported but would not work properly.

If you have ever played our premium module Wyvern Crown of Cormyr and wondered why the jousting (based on EGG's jousting system in the original Chainmail - thanks for the help Gary!) stutters at times - that's the multiplayer engine getting in the way.

It had horrible effects on the animation system used for mounting horses as well. We had elaborate mounting animations and party mount dismount orders, etc.. built into the beta. We spent HUNDREDS of hours debuging this system to try and make it work.

In the end, these systems were sabatoged by the animation engine's averaging code that was there ONLY for multiplayer play and ultimately we had to remove the entire system. It's not so small a factor as you think and it's not as simple as you would prefer to believe. Supporting multiple modes of play in the same engine creates a LOT of headaches on a technical basis - sometimes, far more hassle than it's worth given the relatively small multiplayer base in NWN1 and NWN2 (as compared to the vastly larger SP base).

They still should listen to people, and then decide whether it makes sense and makes it a better game. The worst thing you can do is smile politely, nod agreeably, pretend to pay attention and just ignore most of what the fan on the streed says he or she wants. Because if you design your games on some remote mountaintop, you might have a rude awakening when the game tanks, the critics tear it to pieces, and few people buy it (and most of those who do assault your mountaintop to lynch you).

Sure designers listen. But it does not take long for the value of that to come to an abrupt end. Please appreciate that the designers of these games are hardcore RPG fans themselves. Most are in regular gaming groups as well as being pro game designers and have been playing themselves for a VERY long time. There is little new to be gained from these discussions and - in the end - you need to make the game you have set out to make.

Even if it makes some of your potential customers unhappy.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

Had you ever tried to play in a DMed NWN1 game?

Yeah. I also had DM access to a server (a friend's game he had up quite often), though I only occasionally entered as a DM, mostly to make sure people behave, and sometimes to have a bit of fun. (Those gamewreckers quickly lose their mood for wantonly slaughtering NPCs if old men suddenly acquire boundless magical capacity! )

There is a HUGE difference when you have an experienced DM running the NPCs. At one time there was a huge collection of games you could get in on

I know, and even without a DM, it can be great, provided you have the proper people playing.

If you want an idea of what NWN1 is capable of

I know the game, the DM client, and some of the toolset. I never said the game was anything but great. Still among the top 5 of PC games ever.

But it still can't replace real P&P D&D. It can, however, be a great substitute when you can't play P&P.

 

[takyris]

They still should listen to people, and then decide whether it makes sense and makes it a better game. The worst thing you can do is smile politely, nod agreeably, pretend to pay attention and just ignore most of what the fan on the streed says he or she wants. Because if you design your games on some remote mountaintop, you might have a rude awakening when the game tanks, the critics tear it to pieces, and few people buy it (and most of those who do assault your mountaintop to lynch you).

Pre-editing down to:

We do listen. We decide whether it makes sense. Amazingly, the opinions of people who don't have all the information about what content is and isn't possible given the limitations of the system often don't make a ton of sense.

If you think that your opinion is valuable enough that we should seriously consider it instead of just saying "Wow, another person who really wants (X); we'll put it in the pile next to the pile of people who hate (X) and refuse to buy a game that contains it," then go ahead and submit a job application. It's a great place to work. There's free breakfast and everything.

 

[DemonKing]

No computer game will ever be able to replace D&D in all its glory. But if your gaming party is not available, NWN is the next best thing. No WoW or ToeE or BG ever came as close to the real D&D experience as NWN.

Well I don't *want* computer games to replace tabletop RPGs - I want a different type of experience (see above for my preferences), which was why I didn't like NWN.

NWN isn't Atari's creation. Or Interplay's. Bioware made NWN, just as they made the BG line.

I was referring to my complaint that Atari haven't done anything I've really enjoyed with the D&D license (Atari hold the IP), not arguing about who created NWN. The NWN license was inherited by Atari when Interplay collapsed.

If you want to be anal though Feargus Urqhuart (Ex-head of Interplay's Black Isle studio and current CEO of Obsidian) gets a co-credit for the NWN concept in the original NWN's credits - so you could argue that NWN was created jointly by Bio *and* Interplay.

10 Minutes? Can't remember 10 minutes. But remember that this is not Diablo. There is supposed to be some story in there. And it wasn't even near Torment.

Well, If I wanted to read a book or watch (bad) TV I would do that - that's not what I want to do while I'm playing a computer game, which is why I'm not that fond of the trend towards "Bio-style" CRPGs with extended spoken exposition or the Planescape style of novel-sized reading. I'm not saying it should be cut entirely but it can go to the extent that it starts getting in the way fo the gameplay.

 

[Moon-Lancer]

personally the best game I have played was prince of persia sands of time. Use its animations, and its texture and lighting along with its combat, and mix that with the interactivity of oblivion along with its displacement maps and you have yourself one sexy game. add a leveling system (not oblivions).

Thats what i want my d&d game. I don't want a game that reminds me I'm playing on a grid with a mini. I want a game that emulates what Imagen, not whats in front of me.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

Well I don't *want* computer games to replace tabletop RPGs - I want a different type of experience (see above for my preferences), which was why I didn't like NWN.

That makes sense. NWN wasn't meant to be a sit-alone-in-the-basement-pretending-to-be-an-elf (sorry for the D&D ad reference) game, it was meant to capture the spirit of D&D (in a soulgem, which then is given to a demonlord for consumption, to bring satanist D&D back into the fold ). I think it did that very well.

If you think that your opinion is valuable enough that we should seriously consider it instead of just saying "Wow, another person who really wants (X); we'll put it in the pile next to the pile of people who hate (X) and refuse to buy a game that contains it," then go ahead and submit a job application. It's a great place to work. There's free breakfast and everything.

Nah. The 35km I have to drive to work (and back again) each day are enough. multiplying that number by something like 100 and adding crossing major bodies of water (like oceans) to the mix keeps me from applying (even though I'm sure I'd like it there).

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

I never got into NWN as much as BG or BG2. The single player aspect wasn't what I wanted, I want a party based game. Just like old D&D sessions where we played 3-4 PC apiece. I did play through NWN and the first two expansions, but that was it, the community modules I downloaded were not very good and in the end I wasn't really satisifed with the game.

TOEE was awesome but so damn buggy. I was hoping for more classic modules but they never happened.

It kind of bums me out that there isn't all kinds of RPG for me to try out like years past, Oblivion would choke my current PC, NWN2 would too, and both aren't really the style of game I'm looking for. I play WoW, but there isn't much immersion in MMO's. How can you when you have to farm bosses for loot. "Yeah I killed the BBEG in dungeon X 13 times this week, how many times have you taken him down?" I know why the games are that way but it makes it tough for me to maintain any feeling of immersion in the game. It's a game where you try to gain loot and level, most people I know don't pay any attention to the lore, I read it but its not like the story from BG2 for example. I can't be "the hero" when there are millions of other who want the same.

 

[Steel_Wind]

NWN2 is a party based game and would appear to be what you want - but it has considerable system requirements for turning all the eye candy on.

If you reduce your settings its quite playable on a middling machine.