D&D d20 Idea for Clerics - Spontaneously Cast Domain Spells Only

[Nifft]

How about using the Turning ability itself as healing spells; after all, it is positive/negative energy manipualtion.

How about this -- give Turn attempts another use, and give Cleric levels some value.

At 1st level a Cleric can convert a Turn Undead attempt into a Cure Light Wounds spell.

At 4th level, each TU attempt instead can be converted into a Cure Moderate Wounds spell.

6th level -> Cure Serious Wounds

8th level -> Cure Critical Wounds

10th level -> Mass Cure Light Wounds

12th level -> Mass Cure Moderate

14th level -> Mass Cure Serious

16th level -> Mass Cure Critical

18th level -> Heal

20th level -> Mass Heal


(Because if you make it to 20th level Cleric without any PrCs, you deserve a little something. )

Cheers, -- N

 

[smootrk]

How about this -- give Turn attempts another use, and give Cleric levels some value.

At 1st level a Cleric can convert a Turn Undead attempt into a Cure Light Wounds spell.

At 4th level, each TU attempt instead can be converted into a Cure Moderate Wounds spell.

6th level -> Cure Serious Wounds

8th level -> Cure Critical Wounds

10th level -> Mass Cure Light Wounds

12th level -> Mass Cure Moderate

14th level -> Mass Cure Serious

16th level -> Mass Cure Critical

18th level -> Heal

20th level -> Mass Heal


(Because if you make it to 20th level Cleric without any PrCs, you deserve a little something. )

Cheers, -- N

I like this... possibly. A cleric with extra turning feat, and high charisma can get a great number of relatively high level spell slots (albeit dedicated to healing) using your idea. For instance, 16 CHA + Extra Turning = 10 Turning attempts, add a Cloak of CHA +6, and you get 13 Turning attempts with 16 base Charisma. Gets worse if the Cleric devotes his stat boosts every 4 levels towards Charisma.

I might need to think on this or playtest the feasibility of this. It may work out OK, but just seems on the surface to be possibly abusable.

 

[Greg K]

In my campaign, I allow spontaneous casting for clerics. In addition to domain spells, all clerics can cast the following spells:

0: Detect Magic, Guidance, Read Magic, Resistance
First: Bane, Bless, Command
Second: Augury, Enthrall
Third: Bestow Curse, Prayer, Remove Curse
Fourth: Discern Lies, Divination, Imbue w/ Spell Ability, Mark of Justice, Planar Ally (Lesser), Spell Immunity
Fifth: Atonement, Break Enchantment, Commune
Sixth: Geas/Quest, Planar Ally,
Seven: Contact Other Plane
Eight: Planar Ally (Greater)
Ninth: Miracle

I then round out spell lists as follows
a. add any domain appropriate spells to the spell list.
b. add any 3rd level or lower spell not from a domain associated with a deity opposed to the cleric's patron deity (spell must still be from a domain found within the campaign).
c. add any 4th-5th level domain spells from two deities aligned with the cleric's patron deity (For good cleric's that don't worship a healing diety, one of these deities always has the healing domain).

In addition to casting spells spontaneously, clerics are changed as follows:
1. Turn or rebuke undead is moved to 3rd level unless gained as a domain ability
2. Divine Grace (as the paladin ability): I requested an ability like this in my pre 3e questionarire.
3. Hit die reduced to d6
4. BAB reduced to Poor for priests of non-martial deities
5. Good Save: Will only
6. Armor proficiency: Light armor
7. Skill Points increased to 4/level for clerics of non-martial deities

 

[Nifft]

For instance, 16 CHA + Extra Turning = 10 Turning attempts, add a Cloak of CHA +6, and you get 13 Turning attempts with 16 base Charisma. Gets worse if the Cleric devotes his stat boosts every 4 levels towards Charisma.

Excellent point. The progression could be too generous for the value of a single Turn attempt.

Let's see...

1st level Cleric: you can convert a Turn Undead attempt into divine healing that cures 2 hit points.

4th level Cleric: you can convert a Turn Undead attempt into Cure Light Wounds.

6th level Cleric: 1 Turn -> Cure Moderate

8th level Cleric: 1 Turn -> Cure Serious

10th level Cleric: 2 Turns -> Mass Cure Light

12th level Cleric: 1 Turn -> Cure Critical

14th level Cleric: 2 Turns -> Mass Moderate

16th level Cleric: 4 Turns -> Heal

18th level Cleric: 2 Turns -> Mass Serious

20th level Cleric: 2 Turns -> Mass Critical; 8 Turns -> Mass Heal


Now spell choice matters a lot more, and the Healing domain isn't worthless.

Thoughts? -- N

 

[smootrk]

Excellent point. The progression could be too generous for the value of a single Turn attempt.

Let's see...
1st level Cleric: you can convert a Turn Undead attempt into divine healing that cures 2 hit points.
4th level Cleric: you can convert a Turn Undead attempt into Cure Light Wounds.
6th level Cleric: 1 Turn -> Cure Moderate
8th level Cleric: 1 Turn -> Cure Serious
10th level Cleric: 2 Turns -> Mass Cure Light
12th level Cleric: 1 Turn -> Cure Critical
14th level Cleric: 2 Turns -> Mass Moderate
16th level Cleric: 4 Turns -> Heal
18th level Cleric: 2 Turns -> Mass Serious
20th level Cleric: 2 Turns -> Mass Critical; 8 Turns -> Mass Heal

Now spell choice matters a lot more, and the Healing domain isn't worthless.

Thoughts? -- N

Maybe something easier.
Turn = Spell Level, or Metamagic Enhancement Level (for Empower, Maximized, etc)
Cleric gains 1 additional Turn attempt every other level (3rd, 5th, 7th...)

This is an easy formula that grants extra casting power for heals (although maybe these additional uses can only be used for heals or Metamagic enhancements). I would allow the metamagical enhancements be usable even if the Cleric does not have the actual feat, although only for these healing effects (not other spell usage).

 

[erf_beto]

Excellent point. The progression could be too generous for the value of a single Turn attempt.

Well, that´s because we are assuming that the converted healing spells should have a correlation with spell levels 1 through 9... but do we have to? I mean, the only reason I can think of why it was done this way, was so that the cleric could use up his slots to heal when needed - he was supposed to be the party walking band-aid, wich we are 'undoing' here with these spontaneous Domains.

Let´s say, for example, that a single Turn attempt would go as far as a Cure Crit - and nothing more. Even then a cleric could prepare Heal, Mass Cures, etc, in his/her regular spell slots. The only true healers would be those with the Healing Domain - wich would be incredibly powerfull (as it should be, in my opinion) - but any cleric could offer some healing either with divine channeling or regular spells (thus maintaining the class flavor).

I´m just thinking out loud, but there could be something here...

 

[Li Shenron]

D&D d20 Idea for Clerics - Spontaneously Cast Domain Spells Only​

Gain - Two spells they can cast spontaneously (instead of one), one from each domain. And those would be the only spontaneous spells they have. In terms of spells per day, they wouldn't get the +1 domain spell, instead they get one additional spell, which they can convert to a domain spell if they please.

Loss - Cure X Wounds would be a spontaneous spell for far fewer clerics. Counter: Have most deities offer the Healing Domain.[/I]

Overall is quite a strong net gain.

Clerics with the Healing domain will have 1 more spell per level to cast spontaneously, and domain slots will become regular slots IIUC.

I think the idea is nice, but I wouldn't give out the Healing domain too easily, and I would probably simply remove the domain slot entirely, not "merge" them.

BTW I use the spontaneous divine caster variant TOGETHER with the PHB classes and it works great. But it's true that with an accurate selection of domains and spells you can end up having a sorcerer with better BAB, HP, ST, armor prof and especially without ASF!

 

[Kmart Kommando]

How about having turn attempts also be used for modifying spells, such as:

1. burn a number of turn attempts equal to 1/3 of the spell level of a single target spell that heals hit points, and that spell affects 1 additional target.
More bang for your buck when you need it to count. Also, less chance of the cleric going down to a shield other spell, which no one in my games will cast since the cleric died twice while using it.

2. burn a turn attempt to dismiss a spell as a swift action, rather than a standard action.
Sometimes, there just isn't time to get the job done. Ditto for the shield other spell here too.

3. burn a turn attempt to spontaneously cast any spell you have access to, in place of one you have prepared. Simple, yet not overpowering, since turn attempts aren't unlimited. (but don't start in with the night stick nonsense)

 

[Engilbrand]

This just popped into my head: What about making a divine class that's just like the Warmage? For the moment, I'll call it a Cleric. d8, medium BAB, good Fort and Will. He chooses 4 domains from a God, which I think is all that gods have, right? He gets all of the domain powers, maybe even with little tweaks for class features. If you have the War domain, you get Weapon Focus. Later, it becomes Greater Weapon Focus. Something like that. The main spells that you can cast are your domain spells, and they are all spontaneous. You also get bonus spells each day that you can choose. They're also spontaneous. This number is equal to whatever it says on the chart for bonus spells multiplied by 2.
Example: At first level, I choose a god with War, Strength, Earth and Plant. (I don't typically do Clerics, so pardom my confusion.) He gets the abilities of each of these. It means that he has a turning ability. He can turn Earth and Plant creatures. No undead. He spontaneously casts spells from each of those domains, plus he gets 2 bonus spells that he can cast because he has an 18 in Wisdom. These 2 bonus spells can be any Cleric spells that he would have access to. Each day, he can change those spells, but not his domain spells.
If you can't tell, this is an idea in progress. I'll have to hash it out a bit more when I get home. This would probably require a reworking of a number of domains. It would add a TON of flavor to Clerics, though.

 

[erf_beto]

that´s a good idea, Engilbrand.
My main concern while reading was the high number of spells this Specialist Priest would get at 1st level ... but then again the warmage is kinda like that too, right (i can´t remember...).
At 1st level, a 12 Wisdom Cleric would get 6 known spells (2 he can swap every day, and 4 from his Domains), but how many times can he spontaneously cast them? 3 times (like the regular cleric 2+1Domain)? That´s a lot of spells known, and as much spellcasting as the sorcerer (plus 4 granted domain powers). Though the warmage faces a similar experience, I don´t remember him getting 2 'floating' spell slots - but depriving a cleric of the miracleworker/handyman wide spell selection would be too much, i guess... clerics should be versatile, but purpose driven (hence the Domain Spontanous Casting variant).

Of the top of my head, i´d limit the number of domains at first level and increase them later, with every N-th level.

(on a more personal note, my players are mostly novices, and preparing spells is a bitch... :\
I love sponteanous casting but always feel like divine casters get the short end of it... i was considering a feat that sacrifices a sponteous slot to gain a prepared spell slot to allow more versatile divine casters - wich is why I love your idea so much in fact, an spontaneous wizard plus your idea sounds just like what I wanted for arcane casters too )