D&D General D&D doesn't need Evil

[Scribe]

Also, "default" doesn't mean "common." It means "the only way, unless you actively change it."

It doesnt mean that at all. Especially when the MM specifically, clearly, openly, states in plain English.

"Feel free to depart from it and change..." and "...there is nothing stopping you." So describe to me how thats the 'only way' when it literally says otherwise, and there are (seemingly) popular, officially printed and supported settings that COMPLETELY go against that default.

And quite frankly, why shouldn't you guys be the ones to add alignment instead of making the rest of us have to remove it?

Because its more work to add a system, than it is to ignore it. Especially in a rules set that makes so little use of it.

And because enough people want it, that Wizards actively acknowledged that with the Feywild book, and added 'typically' and other qualifiers because, apparently people dont read the MM.

Sure. But that's what a DM should be saying about their campaign. The game itself shouldn't write every orc as if they're bloodthirsty reavers and force us to make changes. Bloodthirsty reavers should be an option that's presented, not the only one that's presented.

Yes, take it up with how the MM and Volo's are written. Nobody is arguing Orcs MUST ONLY BE EVIL.

Then it's a bad system, because nothing in the MM supports non-evil orcs.

Nothing supports non-Evil Orcs? Again. From the MM. Direct, irrefutable, undeniable, support for Orcs of ANY Alignment you choose. In print.

Why should I have to completely rewrite them? In other threads, you've acted horrified at the idea of having to add "typical racial alignments" to PC races, even going so far as to say you won't buy books that don't include alignments. Is it that hard for you to understand that we feel the same way about having to remove those alignments?

Because you want them to be something specific, or generalized, or 'anything'. Scratch out 'Chaotic Evil' or tape over it and write 'Any Alignment'.

I'm not saying you have to like Alignment. I've come around to the idea thanks to this, and a few other threads since locked, that taken holistically, there is a flaw within how the whole system as presented by Wizards works for a default presentation, and that these issues must be handled at a setting level.

To be perfectly clear: I actually believe that is an issue in how the default presentation of "Alignment as a Cosmic Force", Gods, and Races (Alignment) specifically interact, but that doesnt mean that MANY MANY people, do not get value out of "Alignment as Short Hand Description of Behavior" without moral or ethical judgment.

These 2 perspectives on Alignment are not the same, and having issue with one, is not the same as having issue with the other.

As evidenced by many people in this thread, they do not even consider the moral or ethical ramifications of Alignment, and its not important to them.

As to the rest?

This thread isnt even about racial alignments, but yes I refuse to purchase a book that is as general in terms of how it defines PC options, as Tasha's, or the Feywild book.

If Rabbit people were 'Typically Chaotic Good' and 'ASI is Typically +2 Dex, +2 Int'. I would snap that book up. Right now. Heck, drop the Alignment portion, just give me the ASI and I would buy it!

When instead its.

"Small or Human, you pick. Height and Weight are roughly Human, you pick. Languages are up to you and the DM, you pick. ASI is up to you, you pick."

What am I paying Wizards money for? Rip those 2 or 3 pages out completely and I would buy the book, but that? Thats trash, and I wont support it.

 

[Faolyn]

This thread isnt even about racial alignments, but yes I refuse to purchase a book that is as general in terms of how it defines PC options, as Tasha's, or the Feywild book.

If Rabbit people were 'Typically Chaotic Good' and 'ASI is Typically +2 Dex, +2 Int'. I would snap that book up. Right now. Heck, drop the Alignment portion, just give me the ASI and I would buy it!

When instead its.

"Small or Human, you pick. Height and Weight are roughly Human, you pick. Languages are up to you and the DM, you pick. ASI is up to you, you pick."

What am I paying Wizards money for? Rip those 2 or 3 pages out completely and I would buy the book, but that? Thats trash, and I wont support it.

And I view alignments, and having to completely rewrite or ignore monster entries, as trash. Fortunately, I like enough of what else they write, and am used to rewriting monsters anyway, to be willing to support what I do like.

 

[Scribe]

And I view alignments, and having to completely rewrite or ignore monster entries, as trash. Fortunately, I like enough of what else they write, and am used to rewriting monsters anyway, to be willing to support what I do like.

So your ideal MM book is nothing but the stat sheets, with 'Any Alignment' across the board I assume?

 

[Maxperson]

And I view alignments, and having to completely rewrite or ignore monster entries, as trash.

So both sides have trash. You have literally ignorable in zero seconds trash, and if removed we have a huge time invest trash. You lose that one. It's selfish and petty to expect others to spend a lot of time to add in something that you can ignore in zero seconds.

Fortunately, I like enough of what else they write, and am used to rewriting monsters anyway, to be willing to support what I do like.

Why do you have to re-write Lawful Evil into anything?

 

[Faolyn]

So both sides have trash. You have literally ignorable in zero seconds trash, and if removed we have a huge time invest trash. You lose that one. It's selfish and petty to expect others to spend a lot of time to add in something that you can ignore in zero seconds.

So that means you're being selfish and petty to expect me to put in the effort when it would take you maybe one second to write in an alignment.

Why do you have to re-write Lawful Evil into anything?

Because as I've said multiple times already, Lawful Evil tells me nothing useful about the creature.

 

[BookTenTiger]

YO EVERYBODY!

Please don't get my thread closed by bringing in the SAME arguments from every single thread.

If you feel like it's something you've posted before, in response to the same poster... DON'T PUT IT HERE.

Thank you!

 

[Faolyn]

So your ideal MM book is nothing but the stat sheets, with 'Any Alignment' across the board I assume?

No, I already explained what I want. Several times, in fact. Descriptions of racial tendencies using primarily neutral terminology or outright showing how both the good and evil aspects of the tendency are expressed. For instance, how the monsters in the Level Up Monstrous Menagerie are being written, where alignment--on those rare occasions it is used, and then only with supernatural entities--is nothing more than a tag used for mechanical purposes (as in, spells or items that affect only Lawful creatures).

For instance, here is a bit from the most recent monster previewed, the yeti:

This is what I want. Yeti that, by RAW, can be gentle or cruel, dangerous or helpful, that can be pacified or even befriended with food or act as implacable enemies that attack for no obvious reason without me having to erase the entire description and reimagine their entire sociology like I have to do in base D&D. (Seriously. If I want 5e orcs to be neutral, I literally have to rewrite every single bit of text they have in the MM and in Volos. I'd have to rewrite about half their text if I wanted them to be Lawful or Neutral evil.)

Maybe you'll hate the yeti entry, or all the other entries listed in the thread I linked. I dunno. Maybe you'll like them. Give 'em a read and find out.

 

[Maxperson]

So that means you're being selfish and petty to expect me to put in the effort when it would take you maybe one second to write in an alignment.

Creating an alignment SYSTEM takes more than 1 second.

Because as I've said multiple times already, Lawful Evil tells me nothing useful about the creature.

I don't care. Ignore it then. It tells ME plenty.

 

[Scribe]

YO EVERYBODY!

Please don't get my thread closed by bringing in the SAME arguments from every single thread.

If you feel like it's something you've posted before, in response to the same poster... DON'T PUT IT HERE.

Thank you!

Apologies, hopefully not too late.

 

[payn]

There is no way back now...