D&D: Enough with the Sample NPCs

[ptolemy18]

I recently picked up HEROES OF BATTLE and STORMWRACK, and although I liked STORMWRACK a lot, they both confirmed something which has been bugging me ever since 3.5 started....

...Wizards' D&D 3.5 products contain WAY too many unnecessary sample NPCs and NPC stat blocks! I first noticed this way back in MONSTER MANUAL 3.5, where all the "monster templates" were given a sample statted-out monster. That I can sort of understand... but it's really getting annoying to see each and every prestige class get its own sample-NPC writeup.

I *like* prestige classes, but I don't need to see each one statted out in agonizing detail ("Ovlivo, Gnome Rogue 5/Fancy Lad 3"). My campaign is pretty different from Greyhawk, so I would pretty much never use some random sample NPC in one of my own campaigns -- the sample NPC stat-blocks in the DMG are good enough and it's simple to graft the required prestige classes onto them.

I can only assume that Wizards is banking on the fact that there are inexperienced or casual DMs out there who will actually plug-and-play prestige-class sample NPCs just in case they happen to need a CR 8 Fancy Lad NPC in their totally-unprepared-for dungeon crawl. (What are the chances that your campaign needs a prestige-class NPC of a specific CR, anyway....?) However, for me, the sample NPCs for prestige classes are just a way to squeeze a few more pages out of the books. :/

</whine & complain>

Jason

 

[Nifft]

Yes. It's just a lame excuse to repeat some or all of the class abilities that are listed on the preceeding page... oh, and an even lamer excuse to pad page count.

I like the "adaptation" section -- maybe more of that? or a MONSTER with the PrC that's somehow interesting?

-- N

 

[ElvishBard]

Personally, I like the premade NPC's. It saves me time as they always seem to be right at the level I want, and if not it is really easy to adjust them up or down instead of starting from scratch, but that's just me.

 

[ptolemy18]

Yes. It's just a lame excuse to repeat some or all of the class abilities that are listed on the preceeding page... oh, and an even lamer excuse to pad page count.
-- N

Also.... It's like they're turning what should be a SOURCEBOOK (or at least, usually, has been advertised as a sourcebook) into a sucky pseudo-adventure-module. Not that I have any problem with a module, if I know that's what I'm buying.

Jason

 

[ColonelHardisson]

The sample NPCs are one of things I like best about recent WotC books. Having a ready-made example of a class or Prestige Class makes it a lot more likely that I'll use it in my game - as a DM (neither inexperienced nor casual), I always like having pre-made NPC stat-blocks, and this is especially so with new classes. I'd rather use my time doing something other than making statblocks.

The only thing I don't like is the repetition of info between the class descriptions and the sample NPCs.

 

[MerricB]

The only thing I don't like is the repetition of info between the class descriptions and the sample NPCs.

Pick up a copy of some of the more recent books (Heroes of Battle, Five Nations) and take a look at how much is repeated.

Try "None at all."

I love the sample NPCs. The sample Walker of the Waste in Sandstorm gave me a very entertaining three sessions as the PCs tracked her down.

Cheers!

 

[wedgeski]

Disagree. For less experienced DM's there's nothing like seeing the words of, say, a PrC put into action in a stat block. For experienced DM's, I don't think there can ever be too many NPC's for the plucking when you need them.

 

[ptolemy18]

The sample NPCs are one of things I like best about recent WotC books. Having a ready-made example of a class or Prestige Class makes it a lot more likely that I'll use it in my game - as a DM (neither inexperienced nor casual), I always like having pre-made NPC stat-blocks, and this is especially so with new classes. I'd rather use my time doing something other than making statblocks.

I don't run a Greyhawk campaign, so I would prefer to have one page of the straight-up prestige class RULES, without having to then get four whole page of stats about Trevor Goodheart, Ranger 6/Knotty Pine Ranger 4, and the Role of the Knotty Pine Rangers in the Greyhawk world.

Of course, that doesn't mean I can't pick & choose just what I want (the rules-set) and ditch what I don't (the background), but for me, the background is generally a waste.

In short:

(1) I don't need sample NPCs for prestige classes because I would generally take the time to stat out anyone high-level enough to be in a prestige class.

(2) I prefer the 3.0-style non-Greyhawk-specific prestige classes. I do like the "Adaptation" notes often included with the 3.5 prestige classes, of course, for the same reason.

Jason

 

[Aeric]

Sample NPCs for PrCs are what I would call "true" fluff--they exist mainly to pad out the books and have little to no real value.

Every once in a while, however, there is a sample NPC who has a really interesting backstory that inspires me to make a similar PC or NPC. So they're not totally useless.

I'm sure someday WOTC will run out of ideas for books and publish Complete Prestige, an all-PrC book with no sample NPCs whatsover. Shortly thereafter will come its companion volume, Heroes of Prestige, which will be nothing but sample NPCs.

Until that day, we're stuck with Ovlivo.

 

[ptolemy18]

For experienced DM's, I don't think there can ever be too many NPC's for the plucking when you need them.

Pre-generated NPC stats are for random encounters, exchangeable hirelings and unplanned "Hmm, I need a 5th level fighter -- guess I'd better look at the generic stats in the DMG" situations.

For serious NPCs, I don't grab some random schmoe's stats out of a book. I stat them out myself. I certainly wouldn't build an adventure around some random dude. (Well -- I can see someone doing it if they were REALLY short on time.)

Jason "The 3.0 Green Slime Oozemaster" Thompson